Air Conditioner
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U LòÓk Mad !!
Joined: Apr 2006
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From: Portsmouth
Re: Air Conditioner
Originally Posted by 88CRXHFBSTNG
NO YOU DON'T. its called HC 12a. direct replacement for 134a, cools better and has a lubricant that prolongs the life of the AC parts. $39.95
http://www.hc12ausa.com
http://www.hc12ausa.com
Are you saying, althouth R-134a replaces R-12, R-134a itself is no longer the standard and now HC-12a is what I really need and not the R-134a retrofit kit I just spent $40 on?
Last edited by CarShowz; Jul 29, 2006 at 11:09 AM.
Danny@respecgarage
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,471
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From: www.respecgarage.com
Re: Air Conditioner
The truth:
R12 has been phased out of cars since 1992 or so. The reason why they band the use of r12 was because it depleads the ozone layer. Can you still buy r12? Yes!!!, but is very expensive. Most shop will not fill your car back up with r-12 because it would cost an arm and a leg.
R134a is a direct replacement for r12 by epa standards. Although they say this ,you still have to convert all of your o-rings and the oil in the compressor to make it work. WHY? B/C r134 will eat up the stock o-rings. R12 in your car will be colder than r134 any day.
Refigerant in you system should never have to be topped off or refilled unless their is a leak. If you suspect a leak...I would just try to fix it and go from there. To find a leak: Look for any refrigerant oil on your lines and use straight dish soap on all of the fittings. Check for any bubbles from the soap. In cars usually the evaporator will develop a leak or your compressor seals will go out. Another way to detect this is a TIF leak detector or a sniffer.
A/C work is so easy.....I can't beleive how much shops charge people for this stuff. I'm sure you seen the $19.99 WE WILL CHECK YOUR A/C. Please...what a scam that is.
Basic tools you will need:
A set of r134a automotive gauges....$140
A vaccum pump.....$300
A recovery machine ...$500
oring retro fit kit....$40
R134a refrigerant,......15# cylinder ...$125
NOW you see why they charge you so much. More than often they will also tell you that you also need a new compressor. Add the labor and wammm $1200+
How can I help you?
I have a set of 134a gauges. That's about it. I use to have r12, but that was a while ago. I also have 2 extra compressor laying around if you need one.
Where do you live?
One of my co-worker lives down in chest-a-peak! He has done pleanty of cars and he has all the equipment. IF you live near gloucester I could give you a hand any time.
Danny.
R12 has been phased out of cars since 1992 or so. The reason why they band the use of r12 was because it depleads the ozone layer. Can you still buy r12? Yes!!!, but is very expensive. Most shop will not fill your car back up with r-12 because it would cost an arm and a leg.
R134a is a direct replacement for r12 by epa standards. Although they say this ,you still have to convert all of your o-rings and the oil in the compressor to make it work. WHY? B/C r134 will eat up the stock o-rings. R12 in your car will be colder than r134 any day.
Refigerant in you system should never have to be topped off or refilled unless their is a leak. If you suspect a leak...I would just try to fix it and go from there. To find a leak: Look for any refrigerant oil on your lines and use straight dish soap on all of the fittings. Check for any bubbles from the soap. In cars usually the evaporator will develop a leak or your compressor seals will go out. Another way to detect this is a TIF leak detector or a sniffer.
A/C work is so easy.....I can't beleive how much shops charge people for this stuff. I'm sure you seen the $19.99 WE WILL CHECK YOUR A/C. Please...what a scam that is.
Basic tools you will need:
A set of r134a automotive gauges....$140
A vaccum pump.....$300
A recovery machine ...$500
oring retro fit kit....$40
R134a refrigerant,......15# cylinder ...$125
NOW you see why they charge you so much. More than often they will also tell you that you also need a new compressor. Add the labor and wammm $1200+
How can I help you?
I have a set of 134a gauges. That's about it. I use to have r12, but that was a while ago. I also have 2 extra compressor laying around if you need one.
Where do you live?
One of my co-worker lives down in chest-a-peak! He has done pleanty of cars and he has all the equipment. IF you live near gloucester I could give you a hand any time.
Danny.
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 792
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Re: Air Conditioner
Originally Posted by CarShowz
My current system is R-12 and needs to be converted to a R-134a retrofit kit. I just boiught a kit and now I need my R12 evacuated. Is R-134a an obsolete(sp?) system as well?
Are you saying, althouth R-134a replaces R-12, R-134a itself is no longer the standard and now HC-12a is what I really need and not the R-134a retrofit kit I just spent $40 on?
Are you saying, althouth R-134a replaces R-12, R-134a itself is no longer the standard and now HC-12a is what I really need and not the R-134a retrofit kit I just spent $40 on?
Registered Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,848
Likes: 0
From: Norfolk
Re: Air Conditioner
Originally Posted by 88CRXHFBSTNG
NOT What im saying. click the link!! HC-12a IS AN ALTERNATIVE to converting to R-134 that most people don't understand. my boss has done it in his probe. he's had no problems whatsoever.
Sure...
Originally Posted by EPA.gov
What are HC-12a® and OZ-12®?
HC-12a® and OZ-12® brand hydrocarbon refrigerant blends are flammable refrigerants. Their primary components are hydrocarbons, which are flammable substances such as propane and butane. HC-12a® and OZ-12® are registered trademarks of OZ Technology, Inc. HC-12a® has been marketed since 1994. OZ-12® was a similar blend marketed until the introduction of HC-12a® . Both products have been reviewed by EPA under the Significant New Alternatives Policy (SNAP) program. More information about the SNAP program is available from the hotline listed at the top of this page.
Note that EPA refers to the chemical composition of HC-12a® as Hydrocarbon Blend B. EPA considers any substance with that chemical composition, no matter what its trade name is, to be Hydrocarbon Blend B and to have the same legal status that HC-12a® has.
In order to meet Department of Transportation requirements for shipping HC-12a® in six-ounce cans (DOT refers to these cans as DOT 2Q containers), OZ Technology reduced the vapor pressure of HC-12a® in June, 1998 by changing the composition. EPA does not consider this reformulated HC-12a® to be the same as Hydrocarbon Blend B. The reformulated HC-12a® has not been submitted for SNAP review, and thus cannot be marketed or used as a substitute for ozone-depleting substances.
What is DURACOOL 12a®? Is there a difference between HC-12a® and DURACOOL 12a®?
DURACOOL 12a® has the same chemical composition as the HC-12a® formulation that was submitted for SNAP review and was called Hydrocarbon Blend B. Both HC-12a® and DURACOOL 12a® are different than the new formulation of HC-12a® in six-ounce cans. DURACOOL 12a® is the registered trademark of Duracool Limited, the Canadian company that has manufactured DURACOOL 12a® since 1997. Duracool Limited and OZ Technology, the manufacturer of HC-12a®, are separate, unrelated companies with their own manufacturing facilities and distribution mechanisms.
What is the legal status of hydrocarbon refrigerants such as HC-12a® and DURACOOL®?
It has been illegal since July 13, 1995 to replace CFC-12 with the HC-12a® formulation that was submitted for SNAP review in any refrigeration or A/C application other than industrial process refrigeration. The same prohibition for OZ-12® took effect on April 18, 1994. Because DURACOOL 12a® has the same chemical composition as the HC-12a® formulation that was submitted for SNAP review (i.e., Hydrocarbon Blend B), DURACOOL 12a® is also subject to the same restrictions.
HC-12a®, as reformulated to meet DOT requirements, is not the same as Hydrocarbon Blend B and has not been submitted for SNAP review. OZ Technology is therefore prohibited from marketing this blend as a substitute for any ozone-depleting substance. In addition, any use of this blend as a substitute for CFC-12 or any other ozone-depleting chemical, in industrial process refrigeration or any other refrigeration or A/C end use, is prohibited under the Clean Air Act.
Since HC-12a®, as submitted for SNAP review, is chemically different from HC-12a®, as reformulated to meet DOT requirements, and since it has a different legal status under the Clean Air Act, users of any substance marketed as HC-12a® should be aware of which HC-12a® they have purchased.
Note that the Clean Air Act does not regulate the use of any of these hydrocarbon refrigerants when they are used as replacements for non-ozone-depleting chemicals such as HFC-134a. However, many states prohibit using flammable refrigerants in motor vehicles, regardless of which original refrigerant was used in the vehicle.
May hydrocarbon refrigerants be used to replace CFC-12, commonly referred to as "Freon® ," in cars?
No. It is illegal to use hydrocarbon refrigerants like HC-12a® and DURACOOL 12a® as substitutes for CFC-12 in automobile or truck air conditioning under any circumstances.
Why is it legal to use hydrocarbon refrigerants as CFC-12 substitutes in industrial process refrigeration, but not elsewhere?
EPA has not yet received data that adequately address the safety issues of hydrocarbon refrigerants in applications other than industrial process refrigeration. Flammability risks depend on the type of refrigeration or air-conditioning system. Industrial process refrigeration, for instance, does not include air conditioning, which pipes refrigerated air directly into occupied areas. Industrial process refrigeration generally refers to complex customized appliances used in the chemical, pharmaceutical, petrochemical and manufacturing industries. Direct risk to human health is reduced in industrial process refrigeration; for example, access to areas near the system is typically restricted. In addition, other regulations exist to protect the safety of industrial workers.
EPA will review any additional material that is submitted under SNAP regarding the safety considerations of using hydrocarbon refrigerants in systems other than industrial process refrigeration.
Is sale of hydrocarbon refrigerants legal?
Sale of subtitute refrigerants listed under the SNAP program is not regulated under SNAP. However, statutes and regulations issued by other federal, state, or local agencies may control the sale of these products, including illegal advertising.
May hydrocarbon refrigerants be vented?
No. Since November 15, 1995, the Clean Air Act has prohibited the venting of any refrigerant during the service, maintenance, repair, or disposal of air conditioning and refrigeration systems. When working on a system containing a hydrocarbon refrigerant such as HC-12a® or DURACOOL 12a®, the technician must recover the refrigerant into a suitable container and safely dispose of it.
What other regulations restrict the use and handling of hydrocarbon refrigerants?
In addition to the prohibition on use described above, and the federal law banning the venting of all refrigerants, there are also state and local statutes and regulations that relate to certain uses of hydrocarbons. As of the printing date of this fact sheet, EPA is aware that the following states prohibit the use of flammable refrigerants in automobile air conditioners: Arkansas, Arizona, Connecticut, Florida, Idaho, Iowa, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Maryland, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, Wisconsin, and the District of Columbia.
Local fire codes also often restrict the storage of flammable materials. In addition, other federal, state, and local regulatory agencies may have regulations related to flammable refrigerants. Check with these authorities for more information.
Are there other refrigerants that can replace CFC-12?
Yes. Numerous other refrigerants have been found acceptable, subject to certain conditions on their use. EPA's fact sheet titled "Choosing and Using Alternative Refrigerants for Motor Vehicle Air Conditioning" lists these refrigerants and discusses the conditions. Lists of alternatives in other sectors are available online and from our hotline at 800-296-1996.
HC-12a® and OZ-12® brand hydrocarbon refrigerant blends are flammable refrigerants. Their primary components are hydrocarbons, which are flammable substances such as propane and butane. HC-12a® and OZ-12® are registered trademarks of OZ Technology, Inc. HC-12a® has been marketed since 1994. OZ-12® was a similar blend marketed until the introduction of HC-12a® . Both products have been reviewed by EPA under the Significant New Alternatives Policy (SNAP) program. More information about the SNAP program is available from the hotline listed at the top of this page.
Note that EPA refers to the chemical composition of HC-12a® as Hydrocarbon Blend B. EPA considers any substance with that chemical composition, no matter what its trade name is, to be Hydrocarbon Blend B and to have the same legal status that HC-12a® has.
In order to meet Department of Transportation requirements for shipping HC-12a® in six-ounce cans (DOT refers to these cans as DOT 2Q containers), OZ Technology reduced the vapor pressure of HC-12a® in June, 1998 by changing the composition. EPA does not consider this reformulated HC-12a® to be the same as Hydrocarbon Blend B. The reformulated HC-12a® has not been submitted for SNAP review, and thus cannot be marketed or used as a substitute for ozone-depleting substances.
What is DURACOOL 12a®? Is there a difference between HC-12a® and DURACOOL 12a®?
DURACOOL 12a® has the same chemical composition as the HC-12a® formulation that was submitted for SNAP review and was called Hydrocarbon Blend B. Both HC-12a® and DURACOOL 12a® are different than the new formulation of HC-12a® in six-ounce cans. DURACOOL 12a® is the registered trademark of Duracool Limited, the Canadian company that has manufactured DURACOOL 12a® since 1997. Duracool Limited and OZ Technology, the manufacturer of HC-12a®, are separate, unrelated companies with their own manufacturing facilities and distribution mechanisms.
What is the legal status of hydrocarbon refrigerants such as HC-12a® and DURACOOL®?
It has been illegal since July 13, 1995 to replace CFC-12 with the HC-12a® formulation that was submitted for SNAP review in any refrigeration or A/C application other than industrial process refrigeration. The same prohibition for OZ-12® took effect on April 18, 1994. Because DURACOOL 12a® has the same chemical composition as the HC-12a® formulation that was submitted for SNAP review (i.e., Hydrocarbon Blend B), DURACOOL 12a® is also subject to the same restrictions.
HC-12a®, as reformulated to meet DOT requirements, is not the same as Hydrocarbon Blend B and has not been submitted for SNAP review. OZ Technology is therefore prohibited from marketing this blend as a substitute for any ozone-depleting substance. In addition, any use of this blend as a substitute for CFC-12 or any other ozone-depleting chemical, in industrial process refrigeration or any other refrigeration or A/C end use, is prohibited under the Clean Air Act.
Since HC-12a®, as submitted for SNAP review, is chemically different from HC-12a®, as reformulated to meet DOT requirements, and since it has a different legal status under the Clean Air Act, users of any substance marketed as HC-12a® should be aware of which HC-12a® they have purchased.
Note that the Clean Air Act does not regulate the use of any of these hydrocarbon refrigerants when they are used as replacements for non-ozone-depleting chemicals such as HFC-134a. However, many states prohibit using flammable refrigerants in motor vehicles, regardless of which original refrigerant was used in the vehicle.
May hydrocarbon refrigerants be used to replace CFC-12, commonly referred to as "Freon® ," in cars?
No. It is illegal to use hydrocarbon refrigerants like HC-12a® and DURACOOL 12a® as substitutes for CFC-12 in automobile or truck air conditioning under any circumstances.
Why is it legal to use hydrocarbon refrigerants as CFC-12 substitutes in industrial process refrigeration, but not elsewhere?
EPA has not yet received data that adequately address the safety issues of hydrocarbon refrigerants in applications other than industrial process refrigeration. Flammability risks depend on the type of refrigeration or air-conditioning system. Industrial process refrigeration, for instance, does not include air conditioning, which pipes refrigerated air directly into occupied areas. Industrial process refrigeration generally refers to complex customized appliances used in the chemical, pharmaceutical, petrochemical and manufacturing industries. Direct risk to human health is reduced in industrial process refrigeration; for example, access to areas near the system is typically restricted. In addition, other regulations exist to protect the safety of industrial workers.
EPA will review any additional material that is submitted under SNAP regarding the safety considerations of using hydrocarbon refrigerants in systems other than industrial process refrigeration.
Is sale of hydrocarbon refrigerants legal?
Sale of subtitute refrigerants listed under the SNAP program is not regulated under SNAP. However, statutes and regulations issued by other federal, state, or local agencies may control the sale of these products, including illegal advertising.
May hydrocarbon refrigerants be vented?
No. Since November 15, 1995, the Clean Air Act has prohibited the venting of any refrigerant during the service, maintenance, repair, or disposal of air conditioning and refrigeration systems. When working on a system containing a hydrocarbon refrigerant such as HC-12a® or DURACOOL 12a®, the technician must recover the refrigerant into a suitable container and safely dispose of it.
What other regulations restrict the use and handling of hydrocarbon refrigerants?
In addition to the prohibition on use described above, and the federal law banning the venting of all refrigerants, there are also state and local statutes and regulations that relate to certain uses of hydrocarbons. As of the printing date of this fact sheet, EPA is aware that the following states prohibit the use of flammable refrigerants in automobile air conditioners: Arkansas, Arizona, Connecticut, Florida, Idaho, Iowa, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Maryland, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, Wisconsin, and the District of Columbia.
Local fire codes also often restrict the storage of flammable materials. In addition, other federal, state, and local regulatory agencies may have regulations related to flammable refrigerants. Check with these authorities for more information.
Are there other refrigerants that can replace CFC-12?
Yes. Numerous other refrigerants have been found acceptable, subject to certain conditions on their use. EPA's fact sheet titled "Choosing and Using Alternative Refrigerants for Motor Vehicle Air Conditioning" lists these refrigerants and discusses the conditions. Lists of alternatives in other sectors are available online and from our hotline at 800-296-1996.
If you want to run the risk of your car becoming an inferno and breaking the law, go right ahead and use it...
The reason AC systems need to be charged is they have a LEAK! If you want a substance that has the flashpoint of gas being vented under your hot hood due to a leak, be my guest.
Thread Starter
U LòÓk Mad !!
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 666
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From: Portsmouth
Re: Air Conditioner
This seems to of been my problem the whole time https://www.vadriven.com/forums/tech-talk-9/240-owners-ka24e-question-149075/. I already forgot what the shop said it was, but it's part of my a/c and it always ends up disconnecting itself when I drive. They fitted a smaller diameter hose on, and my car seems to be fine now.
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