LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

Bottom End
84mm 11.5:1 pistons
I-Beam Forged Rods
Knifed/Lightened/Nitrided/Balanced and Blueprinted Crank
Ishihara-Johnson Windage System

Top End
B16 Head, enhanced in the quench pad area similar to a GSR, and fully machined.
Competition Serdi Valve job, full de-shrouded to match 84mm bore.
Mild porting - possibly professional CNC port work.
Skunk2 Pro Series Springs/Retainers
Skunk2 Pro2+ Cams
Ferrea Hollow Stem Sodium Fill Valves.

Other
Golden Eagle LS/VTEC Conversion Kit.
Skunk2 Composite Intake (when released)
Large Tube Headers (1 5/8" Primaries with 2.5" collector, 4-1 design)
No cat. Muffler for street use. Header extension for Drag use.
10,500 RPM - 11,000 RPM


Mostly, this is being posted for Fabrik8 or other knowledgeable people to comment on, as to what they feel is a reasonable goal for said motor, what they like or don't like about the setup, and what they would do different. It's mostly so I can get some ideas on where I might look for improvements, and anyone who's truly interested and willing to make a suggestion is welcome to ask for additional details on any specific parts used (or planned) through PM.

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

Sounds like a pretty solid build to me. Are you going to use a sleeved block or just a normal B20? Personally if I was going to go to that level of a build I would go with a little higer compression, but I suppose it depends on what you are looking to use the car for.

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

Bored LS @ 84. I might sleeve it. Have to talk to a good friend, and see what he says for cost! (I actually am on a budget!)
Pump gas only car. I'm not sure it's possible to take advantage of much more than 11.5:1. Even with the fact it's aluminum head, and will likely be sporting thermal barrier, thermal dispersant, oil shedding, and oil holding coatings throughout as applicable. Just not sure about that.

What would you consider good compression for pump fuel? (Figuring I'll mostly be running a pure 93 (no ethanol) with a higher MON than you get in VA (NC fuel FTW!)

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

Looks good... you've been doing your homework... I agree, I'd go at around 12:1 compression. What management do you plan on running?

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

Any brand preference on parts not listed with a brand preference so far?
And what do you feel it's capable of on a setup of this nature?

You feel it can be upped a little? Good to know.
Probably use Crome. Mostly for price. Pro is relative ease of use with minimal cost ($150).

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

I've seen Wiseco in action on all motor build. It was amazing! .... but I have nothing else to compare it with... experience wise... I'm a turbo guy :D. I even run Wiseco on my turbo motor.

Honestly, your all motor build is probably one of the wiser route there is around here. I'm sure the potential will expose itself after the initial tune. All others that I've seen, even with minor Honda OEM Frankenstein stuff made over 210whp easily.... and I'm talking about just simple LSVTEC CTR pistons, mild head porting and CTR valve train... and of course a bad ass tuner...

... with your set-up, I have some numbers in mind, but I'll let the tuners cover that. I'm sure you'll be happy with the replies....

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

Thanks

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

Well, if it was me...and I did

Bottom end
- 84.5mm sleeved
- 89mm crank for 1996cc
- 11.8:1 to 12.3:1 final compression
- The lightest forged rods that you can afford!!!
- Lightened and balanced complete rotational mass including - flywheel, pulley and clutch as one.
- ATI or Fluidamper hermonic pulley
- ARP head studs and a Cometic head gasket
- 3 main girdle
- coatings are nice, but not necessary

Top End
- B16 Head...port the head, port the head, PORT THE HEAD!!!
Find a professional porter and Fuck mild ports! All the power is in the head!!!
Addressing quench pad is good but don't forget to enlarge the valves. You have to flow that air!
- Eibach Springs and Crower Retainers
- Skunk2 Pro2 Cams (careful, can't go to big. Also...most important, Degree the cams!
- Ferrea valves are always nice.

Other
HONDATA S300!!! You forgot the biggest power maker out there!
Golden Eagle LS/VTEC Conversion Kit.
70mm Throttlebody
Skunk2 Composite Intake would also be nice but I went with a fully ported ITR which was CFM matched to my head.
SMSP B19/B20 Headers...enough said
MSD ignition/coil setup
RC 440cc injectors
...did I forget something...oh well, you get the point.


I did remember the "budget" part...but I figured that you wanted to know Opinions, so there you go!

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

What was your setup making?

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

your gonna bore a stock ls block to 84 ?.....i would personally, and im saying this in my personal opinion and what ive built in the past, NOT reccomend that. i would def sleeve it if your content on sticking with an ls block. Simply because of the detonation risk at that compression and pup gas restriction, granted with a good tune your not gonna have it but cylinder temps and pressure on a stock ls block with that kind of build can cause stress, and thats with out taking off almost .3mm of structure stabilizing, heat absorbing material. Your build sounds pretty friggin solid other then that. Looks like a quality build, im sure itll make some damn good power.

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

There are a couple local porters around here that I'd get some head from. ;).

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

I won't know until I get the motor in the car...which will be sometime after chirstmas but before spring. The motor will make 250whp+ after a little twisting of Shad's arm. A clone of mine made 268whp and mine has a bit more in it...so we'll just have to see.

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

Ah come on. :p

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

Sweet, make some passes!

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

Depending on how much material you add to the head for quench area, your going to have to do some math for the compression. But since you did say you were trying to run pump gas, anywhere approaching 12:5:1 or greater would be pushing it. And are you getting a 11:5:1 GSR, b16 etc (piston)because the valve relief is slightly different for each one and a 11:5:1 gsr piston will have a different cc dome then a ls piston of the same compression ratio. ON that same topic you would have to take in consideration that you are bolting on a b16 head, blah blah blah..ha. Im sure you know all this, just thought i would thow it out there. Sounds like a very solid build!!

S200 or s300 would be a must also like stated above, unless you know a very very good chrome tuner.

GOOD Luck with the build post some update threads when you get this thing running.

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

I too agree with others. You will need to bump the compression up to make the most out of those cams. I also agree with the boring of the sleeves you wont be save running 84mm. If you were turning the rpms you quoted in your first post then you would be getting big time side-wall loading from the pistons which would not be good for those thin sleeves. You probably wont make power anywhere close to that high of a rpm though.

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

I'm quite sure you meant...the boring of the "stock" sleeves won't be "safe" running 84mm" :D

On a side note...the ablity to run 10,000 - 11,000 will require some hefty springs to keep from floating a valve. The problem here is that the more spring...the more you will beat your valve seats to death. It's a game of "give and take". You can't have both.

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

yeah i just got done with my ls/vtec build about 4 months ago and shad tuned it.(car in sig)
Block
ls block boreed .50 over
12-5-1 comp weisco pistons
eagle I beam rods
micro polished ls crank
acl race bearings
golden eagle ls/vtec kit
Head
Stock obd I jdm b16 head
aem fuel rail and fpr
new 310 injectors
Computer
p28 chipped w/crome
Shad tuned it at millenium.

car put down 172 hp and 130 tq.

do these numbers sound about right? and i was just wondering what i could do to get around 200 hp. and if anyone has a head for sale or valvetrain please pm me.

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

***Stock obd I jdm b16 head***

You can add a gallion dollars to a motor, if the head can't flow...you are not going to make the power you want.

I do understand budgets...but the first thing you need to do is port the head...by a REAL porter, not some guy with a Dremel.
Second, In making the head flow better, you need to start thinking about higher flowing headers, intake manifolds and throttlebodies.
Then, after all this, get a good set of stage 2 type cams and upgrade your valvetrain.

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

+1

you can never stress HEAD work enough. THIS IS WHERE YOU MAKE YOUR POWWWWWER!

i had a ls/vtec setup in my crx and it made 205 whp and 143 ft/lbs.

the main thing that was holding me back was i didnt want to turn the motor past 8500 rpms so i went with a smaller cam(edelbrock 4730) that made alot of midrange.(I drove the car daily) My head was ported and the bottom end was just punched 30 over with a set of wiesco 12:1's and eagle h-beams.

I loved the setup! to this day i wish i would not have gotten rid of it:(.

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

I believe in head work, but I have the stock port flow #'s for a B16 head. I have the ported #'s. On a N/A motor, you're talking about less than 10 hp on a build the level at which I'm looking at. Sure, more compression, more cam, more power, more difference. But, it's not worth the $$ when you look at the $/hp difference.

I'd make more power by spending the money on sleeves (which I may have to do anyhow), and running the motor at 87mm......(and you're talking about a very similar cost!)

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

what kind of head and valvetrain were you using??! i've got cash for something new and about how much does porting cost around here(chesapeake/va beach area)? i've looked around online and i see lots of different prices ranging from 450 to over 1000.

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

get seth at abacus to port the head. i would run some skunk or JG valve springs and retainers. also get a set of decent cams, IE. skunk2 stage 2's. then look into a decent intake manifold/tb. then a nice header, IE. smsp, hytech, RMF, ETC. all these combined will wake your motor up.

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

i had a 91 b16 head with s2 springs and retainers. Grey at MRD(millenium) ported my head(this was 1.5 years ago) he still ports and all his heads are making good numbers;)

i have heard nothing but good things about seth also. i think he is alittle more pricey but he can flow bench it and give you some numbers. But like dang yo says, alot of it is in your intake manifold and header. i went from making 187 whp and 141 ft.lbs to 205whp 143 ft/lbs just with a RMF header and another tune!

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

edit

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

my computer went crazy.

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

sorry

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

YEA!!!! WTF WERE YOU THINKING!!!

I still can't believe that you sold your CRX. Now who in the hell am I going to show mine with!?! j/k

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

yup haha. 84mm aftermarket sleeves + boost = fun:cool:

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

haha. yeah i wish i would have kept it and just stored it away in a garage. i miss it.

your setup sounds pretty beast dude. pm me the numbers you make when you finally get it straight.

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

Get someone local to port the head.

I had a head that was ported by a John Savage. His porting was more impressive IMO than my friends RLZ head. Was it RLZ? no no. Portflow.

Then again, my friend is shooting for big numbers(700+) and this was a street car.



Haha.

Build another one. I'll buy something for it. :) Just to push you to do it.

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

I have driven my CRX almost every day since I bought it new in december of 88...so the last 8 months have been pure hell not having her.
Back in april I had to strip her down due to major frame damage brought on by horsepower and age. After that I deceided to finally convert her over to a complete EE8/Vti. Joey over at Stock & Modified is doing the body work.

So with that...I'm hoping to get the chassis back no later than the first of the year. Then I still will need to reassemble the whole car, work out some welding/fab stuff then install the motor. I currently have all the parts to finish the whole project minus a REAL header and a S300, so I'm hoping to have it running again something late winter/early spring. Damn I miss her!



Well, you have a garage...so what's keeping you now?

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

yeah i am going to get another one sooner than later :) i have to get a garage, i dont have one. Im trying to get a house and then i will go from there.
let me know when you get it back and running i would liek to see it.

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

We had a garage setup for him. He's just a BS'er. It coulda sat next to the Nova and collected cob-webs.

Man that woulda been a dope ass garage.

Anyways. Back to the OP. PORT THE HEAD!

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

Yes...sorry.

Port the head!

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

What does, i.e., Abacus charge for porting the head?

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

Depends of the level of porting. The thing to do is talk to Seth.

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

Here's the thing. Assuming you get 15% better airflow - You're only talking about ~10 hp in increase. That includes going to a larger valve set. It doesn't really seem worth the $$, when you consider that for the same amount, I can have a custom made tuned header built, that would provide far greater gains, I can buy an intake, throttle body, and a normal header, which will provide greater benefit, I can add more in weight reduction than the horsepower gain would give me for the same cost.......it just seems like an unnecessary expense.....

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

i know you are on a budget but according to your build list and all the money spent already i dont think you are going to be happy with the results of an unported head. the porting, cams, and header combined are probly the 3 most important items for a build( minus the tune) HP wise. I would still talk to seth and get his opinion on it, and at least go get a price and see if it seems worth it to you.

Re: LS/VTEC Setup - Opinions
 

I'll have to disagree with ya on this. Back in 2001 I built (and just sold) a 237hp, 11.8:1cr, 81.5mm, N/A, B16A2 with a ITR manny, RC bored 64mm ITR TB, Sk2 St2 cams, ITR Header, 320cc RC injectors and a Shad tuned Hondata.
Now how in the hell did I go from 160hp to 237hp? Yes Shad did a fuckin outstanding tune (64 pulls at last count) but I've yet to see a local 11.8:1cr, 81.5mm, N/A, B16 put down these kind of numbers.
So where did it come from?!?


Dude...it's in the head!