Originally Posted by Dirk Dickbutt

For once, someone gets it.


Toyota not looking so shiny now

Is the Toyota Motor Corp. juggernaut losing its conqueror-of-the-world mojo?

Because if it was a Detroit automaker that was recalling 4.26 million vehicles to repair accelerator problems, or if it was a Detroit automaker that had broken its historic no-plant-closings pledge, or if it was a Detroit automaker that had recalled more vehicles (2.38 million) in 2005 than it sold in the United States that year (2.26 million), the answer would be an emphatic yes.

The answer also would be yes if Toyota, an earnings powerhouse, suddenly stopped minting cash -- notwithstanding the three-month period ended Sept. 30 -- and was on track to lose billions more this year. The answer would be yes if its exponential market share gains suddenly slowed, or if its national rival, Honda Motor Co., kept delivering profits despite a global auto recession and its new South Korean rival, Hyundai-Kia, continued to grab precious U.S. market share.

News flash: The men running Toyota appear to be mortal. They overreach and make mistakes. Their vehicles are not flawless. Their engineers cut corners, at least in ways that garner the attention of the National Highway Traffic Administration. Their Camry no longer is the undisputed king of midsize cars, now that rivals Ford Motor Co. and even General Motors Co. are proving they can produce world-class metal, too.


This isn't new, either, suggesting that Toyota's troubles may be more of a developing pattern than a one-time aberration. Two years ago, before two-thirds of Detroit's automakers were tempered by the fires of bankruptcy, the editor of the ostensibly "Japanese-loving" Consumer Reports apologized to readers for recommending the problem-plagued Camry V-6.

He also said the magazine had decided new Toyota models could no longer be given the benefit of the doubt -- or its prized "recommended" label. And Toyota's V-8 powered Tundra four-wheel drive pickup was labeled "unreliable" by the magazine, the unofficial Bible to discerning car and truck buyers.

Two years before that, the global industry's gold standard for quality recalled more vehicles in the United States than it sold in the United States. There have been running customer complaints about sludge in its engines, and, more recently, growing federal skepticism over Toyota's response to the unintended acceleration probe.

'Grasping for salvation'
Infallible they aren't, as CEO Akio Toyoda, a scion of the founding family, conceded last month. Toyota, he said, is nearing "capitulation to irrelevance or death" and is "grasping for salvation." He also said the still cash-rich automaker has grown too arrogant on "the hubris born of success" and the "undisciplined pursuit of more."

Even adjusting for the Japanese cultural proclivity for excessive apology freighted with humility, those are stunning statements coming from a Toyota CEO. Considering that his name, save one letter, is on the proverbial building, the admissions are even more revealing.

Which means what, exactly?

That the Great Recession, the accelerant that pushed GM and Chrysler Group LLC into bankruptcy and fueled Ford's evident resurgence, also is rebalancing the automotive landscape in ways that seemed impossible just a few years ago.

Fresh from federally induced bankruptcy, GM's labor costs are competitive; its product portfolio is solid; its footprint in developing markets is impressive; and its debt load is enviably small, making it a potentially formidable competitor able to generate cash once the worst of the auto sales depression passes.

Ford arguably is building its best vehicles in a generation, if not a whole lot longer. The Blue Oval is booking monthly gains in its share of the U.S. market, an accomplishment seemingly reserved exclusively for Toyota not too long ago.

And Toyota's position as the undisputed quality leader and industry juggernaut clearly is in jeopardy. That's change you can believe in.

Originally Posted by Dirk Dickbutt

There's a surprising amount of lulz in this thread. Toyota and Nissan should go back to building just medium trucks. GM, Ford, Chrysler build rock solid, proven medium and large trucks. And yes, everything built nowadays is overpriced, and it's sad, but whatever. The Titan and Tundra are nothing in comparison to the Big 3 trucks, which is why I lul everytime I see one. The small/medium trucks Toyota and Nissan built in the past 20/30 years are proven....but there's been nothing but problems with the large trucks. What's next? Nissan and Toyota duallies? That would be the joke of the century.

Originally Posted by Cyanide Jello

I'm loling at the fact they did another recall on their trucks for the frames rusting in half... Cheap ass foreign undercoat...

Originally Posted by SH-IZZLE

Now I cant say its for the life of they vehical. I didnt know they had frame problems that far back lol. I just saw that most companies offer a limited rust coverage and toyota is one of them but they brought this recall out to fix what I guess could become a hugh problem. I kinda figured that once your coverage is up that its no longer the manufactures problem but I could be very wrong. I just hope that I never have to be the one to replace a frame on the 01-04 tacoma since they from my understanding no longer buy them back.

Originally Posted by SH-IZZLE

It's funny you should mention that. Before I went to toyota I was at nissan for a while and from what the nissan rep was telling us was dogde will take over building the titan and it will be offered with a cummins diesel. Now how true that is, I couldnt tell you. But that was the word getting around.

Originally Posted by nissanfixer

i still work for nissan. have been a tech for them for 12 years. the dodge/nissan merger was killed when fiat bought dodge. because renault owns a big share in nissan and renault and fiat being rivals in europe, the dodge/titan was killed. i wish we would get a diesel tho and the cummins would be a reliable hit for us.

Originally Posted by SH-IZZLE

Ahh so it wasent just a rumor then? The diesel would of been a good idea and dont get me wrong I like the titan. But dodge buildimg it for some reason just scared me lol.