You sure are...

Cause last I checked, cam 2 (leaded 110) was quite different than VP109.

And to answer your question amount meth; you're stuck in the mindset of a DSM/EVO/other turbo type car where yes, it'll blow if the nozzle/pump fails.

My car however tunes itself, if it senses no injection at the time, it'll rapidly pull timing and adjust accordingly. If the injection kicks back in, it'll pick up on that and immediately start advancing the timing up to the knock-threshold, no more, no less. I even have a switch mounted on my intake manifold that is simply "on/off" for my injection. I can run it on all day, boost around, then stop, flip it off, take off and as soon as the DME picks up that i'm not injecting anymore, it'll pull timing and work up from there.

Same with race gas, I can have 2-3 gallons of 93 in there, then throw in a 5 gallon tank of 109 and head off, it doesn't have to be straight 109 or a race file....on my way to wherever i'm going, the car will be tuning itself to the right timing advancement. In addition, my boost is consistent throughout the rpm range, so spikes and sporadic boost is the least of my worries. Therefore, meth will do just fine.

I got tired of messing with various maps, worrying about timing and boost issues, etc. This all keeps things safe and secure thanks to the new/advanced DMEs (ECUs) out now.

 

I still fail to see where you feel that filling a small resevior and keeping a stash of methanol on hand is convenient. How is your system advancing the timing? Does it advance it till it knocks and then begins backing off? Cam2 is 110, I just figured that if you were talking money, I didnt feel you were referring to VP fuels which cost far more than Sunoco or other various cheaper high octane fuels. If you really want to get fancy about it, I can setup a switch where I flip between two seperate maps, or even use a true flex fuel sensor and make the car a flawless flex-fuel car, just at this moment in time I see no real need for it as I thoroughly enjoy E85.

I would however love a quick overview of your system, as Id like to know exactly what is taking place.

 

In the same argument though, neither is driving up North X amount of hours to fill a gas drum of e85. At least alchy can be purchased locally.

DSM/ EVO mindset? I think those two car platforms should be pulled out of the equation completely as it has nothing to do with that. The point is that alcohol injection systems have failures and most don't have safety parameters to adjust accordingly. The jets clog, fail. The solenoids fail. Most aren't running dedicated full stand-alone systems that have fail safe parameters to catch such failures.

Other than the fact that e-85 requires more fuel delivery, the benefits of the fuel far outweigh meth injection. It's reliably delivered 105oct with excellent cooling properties that can be purchased at the pump for $2.85.

What's crazy is guy's on the link boards are able to see similar boost levels and tunes as their c16 tune's with e-85.

 

My point was that when it comes down to it, methanol injection costs more and is still a huge inconvenience, let alone to shitty methods in which the systems inject and are monitored.

 

I'm by no means bashing E85. I think it's a great idea, but it does have its drawbacks as well, as with any setup - in the Ethanol setup, you just lose gas mileage.

I wouldn't hesitate to run if, if the car was set up to do so, but I just dont feel like having to order a drum of it or find a station that has a pump. If we lived in Charlotte, that's a different story.

The M3's DME is quite interesting. You're right, it advances timing up until it feels knock, then it figured out a nice threshold. Even running race gas on non-blown M3s has shown performance gains even on the dyno, simply because the stock ECU will advance timing accordingly. Its really cool!

I hope you didn't think I was bashing your setup, it's sweet! I just wanted to make sure Dustin knew there were drawbacks even to E85.

 

I'm not taking anything as bashing, its the internet, taking it seriously would be retarded. I simply feel that people hype up alky systems, and to me they are just simply a "good enough" alternative. There are just too many failure modes with them to keep me happy. I like the idea of having a complete fuel injection that is entirely mappable, datalogged, and closed loop, that uses alcohol that cools better and gives more energy than any meth system could.

 

Wow in the time it takes to read a thread lol.

 

I wish we had some E85 pumps around here, people are pulling some great numbers by running the stuff. Too bad VA has like 4 stations that run e85 and 3 of them are private. Some of the problems or potential problems that people have running meth doesn't outweigh the gains that they see. They both have their drawbacks. E85 requires some heavy fuel mods to support the system not to mention trying to tune it, but hopefully its only a matter of time before we see more stations with it.

 

If DSMers would broaden their initial goals to encompass E85 as well as greater things such as AEM, they would find that it really isnt all that expensive to setup an otherwise stock DSM to produce incredible times and numbers even on E85. The problem lies in when people say 12's are good enough, and then make 12's, and then say 11's are good enough, and then make 11's, etc etc.

 

does running ethanol constantly have the same cylinder oil washing effect as meth injection?