[Fredericksburg] Cooper Automotive (Machine Shop)
I searched around and found this machine shop. I finally found Cooper Automotive:
600 KENMORE AVE
Fredericksburg, VA 22401
The guy seemed very nice. I dropped off my engine block, head, valves, rods with pistons, ACT clutch plate flywheel. ect. The head and engine block was stripped down to nothing. The guys name was Lee Griffin. The engine was a 4G63 motor.
He told me that he would have it done in 1 week to a week and a half. I told him BEFORE he bores anything to call me so I can order the correct size pistons. 1 week later I called him and he said he hasn't gotten to it. But he asked me to bring him another head. So I did. (I was betting that my head was junk anyway, so that was no biggie). 2 weeks later I call him and asked him the status of the engine. And he tells me the engine is done. I asked him how that was possible as he hadn't gotten the pistons yet. For those not versed in engine building, especially performance engine building. You must have the pistons in your hands to ensure proper piston to wall clearance. He told me that the engine was bored to 0.040" over. We argued for a bit and I told him I'd be by with the pistons when they got there. Well, a vendor sent me the wrong size piston (85.5mm, I need 86mm), but when I measured them the pistons measure around 85.2-85.3mm. I called the vendor who has built an 8 second 4G63 powered car and I called Manley and both told me that the pistons are purposely undersized and the cylinders need to be bored to each piston specifically. I was told that I could expect 85.7-85.8mm pistons when I order 86mm. The piston to wall clearance from Manely calls for 0.0035", I was going to go for 0.0045." But 0.3mm = 0.011" which means I am going to get a lot of piston slap. And to add salt to the wound, you can't bore a 4G63 out to past 0.040". So as the vendor said "he just turned your block into a pretty big paper weight."
I called Mr. Griffin back and he backtracked on everything he said. He told me that he bored the cylinders to 85.5mm and he was going to hone the cylinders out to 86mm. In hopes that he might not be a total tool trying to rip me off, I forced myself to believe him.
That was until I picked up my head. The head was decked and resurfaced. Valves were cut. Valve seats resurfaced and lapped. He claimed the head was cleaned; hot tanked twice. TOTAL CRAP! The head was covered in engine grease. The old valve cover gasket was still stuck on the head. And here's the kicker. Here is how I know he did not clean the head. I marked the camshaft caps and the head with blue erase marker so I know where each one goes. The blue marker was still on the head. I took my finger and wiped it off. There is no way this head was cleaned.
On top of that he is charging me $926. My wife gave him $500 cash and picked up the head, head components and the invoice while I was at work. I found out the crap quality of work about 2 hours later. The invoice has a world of stuff that I never asked him to do. I am going to call him tomorrow and tell him to give me back my stuff, give me back my money and maybe I won't sue him for ruining my low-milage block.
STAY AWAY FROM COOPER AUTOMOTIVE
x
600 KENMORE AVE
Fredericksburg, VA 22401
The guy seemed very nice. I dropped off my engine block, head, valves, rods with pistons, ACT clutch plate flywheel. ect. The head and engine block was stripped down to nothing. The guys name was Lee Griffin. The engine was a 4G63 motor.
He told me that he would have it done in 1 week to a week and a half. I told him BEFORE he bores anything to call me so I can order the correct size pistons. 1 week later I called him and he said he hasn't gotten to it. But he asked me to bring him another head. So I did. (I was betting that my head was junk anyway, so that was no biggie). 2 weeks later I call him and asked him the status of the engine. And he tells me the engine is done. I asked him how that was possible as he hadn't gotten the pistons yet. For those not versed in engine building, especially performance engine building. You must have the pistons in your hands to ensure proper piston to wall clearance. He told me that the engine was bored to 0.040" over. We argued for a bit and I told him I'd be by with the pistons when they got there. Well, a vendor sent me the wrong size piston (85.5mm, I need 86mm), but when I measured them the pistons measure around 85.2-85.3mm. I called the vendor who has built an 8 second 4G63 powered car and I called Manley and both told me that the pistons are purposely undersized and the cylinders need to be bored to each piston specifically. I was told that I could expect 85.7-85.8mm pistons when I order 86mm. The piston to wall clearance from Manely calls for 0.0035", I was going to go for 0.0045." But 0.3mm = 0.011" which means I am going to get a lot of piston slap. And to add salt to the wound, you can't bore a 4G63 out to past 0.040". So as the vendor said "he just turned your block into a pretty big paper weight."
I called Mr. Griffin back and he backtracked on everything he said. He told me that he bored the cylinders to 85.5mm and he was going to hone the cylinders out to 86mm. In hopes that he might not be a total tool trying to rip me off, I forced myself to believe him.
That was until I picked up my head. The head was decked and resurfaced. Valves were cut. Valve seats resurfaced and lapped. He claimed the head was cleaned; hot tanked twice. TOTAL CRAP! The head was covered in engine grease. The old valve cover gasket was still stuck on the head. And here's the kicker. Here is how I know he did not clean the head. I marked the camshaft caps and the head with blue erase marker so I know where each one goes. The blue marker was still on the head. I took my finger and wiped it off. There is no way this head was cleaned.
On top of that he is charging me $926. My wife gave him $500 cash and picked up the head, head components and the invoice while I was at work. I found out the crap quality of work about 2 hours later. The invoice has a world of stuff that I never asked him to do. I am going to call him tomorrow and tell him to give me back my stuff, give me back my money and maybe I won't sue him for ruining my low-milage block.
STAY AWAY FROM COOPER AUTOMOTIVE
x
Last edited by laserspeeddemon; Jun 9, 2011 at 06:45 AM.
CLIFFS.
Went to Cooper Automotive
Overbored engine.
Engine now usable
Cooper says no, every thing good
Pick up head and invoice.
Head is filthy SUPER filthy.
Overcharges does services he was not asked to do.
Block is probably a paper weight now.
COOPER BAD
Went to Cooper Automotive
Overbored engine.
Engine now usable
Cooper says no, every thing good
Pick up head and invoice.
Head is filthy SUPER filthy.
Overcharges does services he was not asked to do.
Block is probably a paper weight now.
COOPER BAD
So I picked up the rest of the block/head/etc. Paid him the rest of the money.
I took the block to CNC Engine Dynamics. They looked at it and said it doesn't look like machinist did anything BUT bore it. It wasn't washed/hot tanked. The deck was not resurfaced, etc.
The head is even worse. Strictly Import Performance said that the Valve Guides appeared to be half-cut/grind-ed down on only about half of them. They confirmed the deck was not sufficient. They said the valves will probably have selling issues. I will probably need new valves. To sum up how bad it was. They said "Hey! At least, the head is salvageable." But everything is going to have to be re-done. Both shops are willing to take pictures / make notes as appropriate to describe the condition of the engine/head as they received them
There is NO DOUBT in my mind that I will be taking this guy to court within the next few months to recoup, at least, the fees he charged me and possibly the extra costs I have and will incur to fix his sloppy work.
Some pictures:
Grease on the head/ Exhaust ports absolutely fiflthy.

More Grease on the head. Cam Shaft Seal residue is still stuck to the head/caps.

More Grease

Valve Cover Gasket still stuck on the sealing surface.

Dirt/Rust/Grim in Spark Plug Well

Not sure what this is called, but I know there's not supposed to be dirt/grime int.

Another one, but is far more dirty.
I took the block to CNC Engine Dynamics. They looked at it and said it doesn't look like machinist did anything BUT bore it. It wasn't washed/hot tanked. The deck was not resurfaced, etc.
The head is even worse. Strictly Import Performance said that the Valve Guides appeared to be half-cut/grind-ed down on only about half of them. They confirmed the deck was not sufficient. They said the valves will probably have selling issues. I will probably need new valves. To sum up how bad it was. They said "Hey! At least, the head is salvageable." But everything is going to have to be re-done. Both shops are willing to take pictures / make notes as appropriate to describe the condition of the engine/head as they received them
There is NO DOUBT in my mind that I will be taking this guy to court within the next few months to recoup, at least, the fees he charged me and possibly the extra costs I have and will incur to fix his sloppy work.
Some pictures:
Grease on the head/ Exhaust ports absolutely fiflthy.

More Grease on the head. Cam Shaft Seal residue is still stuck to the head/caps.

More Grease

Valve Cover Gasket still stuck on the sealing surface.

Dirt/Rust/Grim in Spark Plug Well

Not sure what this is called, but I know there's not supposed to be dirt/grime int.

Another one, but is far more dirty.
Latest from the new machine shop.
So I told him NOT to bore the motor, he told me he bored it 0.040" over without asking me and the new machine shop told me that he actually bored it 0.090" over
In a few minutes he replies with this.
That's right he bored it 0.100" over. Since the biggest pistons sold are 0.060" (and are not recommended to be used with sonic testing the block) this block is a paper weight.
Sure, you could stuff 0.080" pistons in there from a 4G64, but that is VERY risky, either way. 0.095" and 0.100" make this block toast.
Hey Sean sorry to say but the block the guy did can't be used with the pistons we will have to do the other block. 2 cylinders were 8.5 thousandths over and 2 cylinders were 9 thousandths over. Give me a call or email with any questions. I'm gonna take pics of each cylinder with the guage for proof for ya
In a few minutes he replies with this.
Hey I just took the pics and they are all more like 10 thousandths over. We are gonna strip the other block and bake it for a day to clean it off since it's got oxidation all over it
Sure, you could stuff 0.080" pistons in there from a 4G64, but that is VERY risky, either way. 0.095" and 0.100" make this block toast.
Latest from the new machine shop.
So I told him NOT to bore the motor, he told me he bored it 0.040" over without asking me and the new machine shop told me that he actually bored it 0.090" over
In a few minutes he replies with this.
That's right he bored it 0.100" over. Since the biggest pistons sold are 0.060" (and are not recommended to be used with sonic testing the block) this block is a paper weight.
Sure, you could stuff 0.080" pistons in there from a 4G64, but that is VERY risky, either way. 0.095" and 0.100" make this block toast.
So I told him NOT to bore the motor, he told me he bored it 0.040" over without asking me and the new machine shop told me that he actually bored it 0.090" over
In a few minutes he replies with this.
That's right he bored it 0.100" over. Since the biggest pistons sold are 0.060" (and are not recommended to be used with sonic testing the block) this block is a paper weight.
Sure, you could stuff 0.080" pistons in there from a 4G64, but that is VERY risky, either way. 0.095" and 0.100" make this block toast.
Good luck with your troubles, they obviously charged you for work they didn't do.
Last edited by RandomTask; Jun 24, 2011 at 07:28 AM.
I made a mistake in my last post.
Cooper Automotive actually bored the cylinders 0.008-0.10" over the 0.040" So he bored it 0.048"-0.050."
Like most performance piston manufactures, Manley does not make pistons 86.5mm for 6-bolt, 4G63 motors. And even then the block needs to be sonic tested and it's a risk to run a bore that size. So either way the block is still trash.
Cooper Automotive actually bored the cylinders 0.008-0.10" over the 0.040" So he bored it 0.048"-0.050."
Like most performance piston manufactures, Manley does not make pistons 86.5mm for 6-bolt, 4G63 motors. And even then the block needs to be sonic tested and it's a risk to run a bore that size. So either way the block is still trash.
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