Hey Toyota Techs (sw20 mr2)
01-05-2004, 12:07 PM
#1
BRB, shark week.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Toyota Techs (sw20 mr2)
Hey, alright... so let’s talk MR2’s.
If some of you didn’t already know by looking at my signature, I’m a huge MR2 fan. Once I finish school I plan on buying one, its number one on my things to do list after graduation. That’s the thing, I don’t actually own a MR2 yet. But, I’ve decided that I want to go ahead and get a 3s-gte engine, actually an entire rear clip, and start building it up (being that I have decided to buy a non-turbo USDM MR2 then just swap it… well when I actually go out and get one). That’s the background, now… here is the question:
Which generation should I go with?
I have two in mind, that’s the 2nd and 3rd gen 3s-gte’s. Which one though? I’ve heard good and bad things about both, then again... I’ve only heard, not verified.
From what I understand a 3rd generation 3s clip are pretty expensive and rare. But the 3rd gen 3s puts out much larger numbers than any other generation. Then again, I’ve HEARD the 2nd gen 3s is well worth it, but doesn’t have the same returns as the 3rd gen. But, the 2nd gen is much easier to get a hold of and can put out the same numbers as a 3rd gen with a little extra cash.
Now, should I go ahead and spend the extra money on the 3rd gen clip and do it the right way then build it up, or should I just go with the 2nd gen and spend a little less? Either way, my spending limit on the clip+mods alone is going to be about $4500, so you can see why I’m leaning towards the cheaper 2nd gen.
JDM 2nd gen clips range in prices from $2500 ~ 3000
JDM 3rd gen clips range anywhere from $3500 ~ 4500
** Another question for you Toyota Freaks: Could a 3nd gen engine work properly, without diminishing returns, with a 2nd gen tranny/ecu/harness/etc?
** So, which one? I think I’ve compared them enough, but I need you Toyota nerds to work out some numbers and give your honest opinion from what you’ve heard/experienced.
If some of you didn’t already know by looking at my signature, I’m a huge MR2 fan. Once I finish school I plan on buying one, its number one on my things to do list after graduation. That’s the thing, I don’t actually own a MR2 yet. But, I’ve decided that I want to go ahead and get a 3s-gte engine, actually an entire rear clip, and start building it up (being that I have decided to buy a non-turbo USDM MR2 then just swap it… well when I actually go out and get one). That’s the background, now… here is the question:
Which generation should I go with?
I have two in mind, that’s the 2nd and 3rd gen 3s-gte’s. Which one though? I’ve heard good and bad things about both, then again... I’ve only heard, not verified.
From what I understand a 3rd generation 3s clip are pretty expensive and rare. But the 3rd gen 3s puts out much larger numbers than any other generation. Then again, I’ve HEARD the 2nd gen 3s is well worth it, but doesn’t have the same returns as the 3rd gen. But, the 2nd gen is much easier to get a hold of and can put out the same numbers as a 3rd gen with a little extra cash.
Now, should I go ahead and spend the extra money on the 3rd gen clip and do it the right way then build it up, or should I just go with the 2nd gen and spend a little less? Either way, my spending limit on the clip+mods alone is going to be about $4500, so you can see why I’m leaning towards the cheaper 2nd gen.
JDM 2nd gen clips range in prices from $2500 ~ 3000
JDM 3rd gen clips range anywhere from $3500 ~ 4500
** Another question for you Toyota Freaks: Could a 3nd gen engine work properly, without diminishing returns, with a 2nd gen tranny/ecu/harness/etc?
** So, which one? I think I’ve compared them enough, but I need you Toyota nerds to work out some numbers and give your honest opinion from what you’ve heard/experienced.
01-05-2004, 12:10 PM
#2
BRB, shark week.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just found this... more info for the non-toyota guys who want to follow this thread.
FYI: Gen III Differences
- MAP sensor instead of AFM
- Bosch D-Jetronic (Gen III) vs. L-Jetronic (relatively primitive) engine management
- CT20b turbo replaces CT26
- Boost raised from 10psi to 13psi
- Fuel cut raised from 12 psi to 18 psi
- Different ECU
- 4 wire O2 sensor
- Shim under bucket valve shims
- slightly more aggressive cams
- Revised internals (pistons, con-rods etc.)
- Revised cylinder head cooling passages/water jackets
- Revised intake manifold (8 'independent long ports' reduced to 4)
- intake manifold inlet air temperature sensor added. i.e. after turbo and intercooler.
- Revised gearbox with close ratio gearing
- lower compression ratio
- stainless steel head gasket
- factory 540cc injectors replace 430cc injectors
- revised fuel rail with bigger bore and relocated pressure regulator
- TVIS eliminated
- EGR eliminated
- LSD in 80% of them
- throttle body increased from 55mm to 60mm
- inlet valve lift increased from 8.2 to 8.7
- intake manifold inlet air temperature sensor added
- Less restrictive exhaust elbow
- Aluminum oil pan
- more rigid alloy sump and additional oil baffles
- Factory Catch can
- Better Oil Cooler and relocated oil filter (bottom)
- 4 Channel ABS coupled with Traction Control available
- No. 1 compression ring described as 'stainless steel' instead of just 'steel'. Oil ring is described as 'stainless steel' instead of 'a combination of steel and stainless steel'.
- MAP sensor instead of AFM
- Bosch D-Jetronic (Gen III) vs. L-Jetronic (relatively primitive) engine management
- CT20b turbo replaces CT26
- Boost raised from 10psi to 13psi
- Fuel cut raised from 12 psi to 18 psi
- Different ECU
- 4 wire O2 sensor
- Shim under bucket valve shims
- slightly more aggressive cams
- Revised internals (pistons, con-rods etc.)
- Revised cylinder head cooling passages/water jackets
- Revised intake manifold (8 'independent long ports' reduced to 4)
- intake manifold inlet air temperature sensor added. i.e. after turbo and intercooler.
- Revised gearbox with close ratio gearing
- lower compression ratio
- stainless steel head gasket
- factory 540cc injectors replace 430cc injectors
- revised fuel rail with bigger bore and relocated pressure regulator
- TVIS eliminated
- EGR eliminated
- LSD in 80% of them
- throttle body increased from 55mm to 60mm
- inlet valve lift increased from 8.2 to 8.7
- intake manifold inlet air temperature sensor added
- Less restrictive exhaust elbow
- Aluminum oil pan
- more rigid alloy sump and additional oil baffles
- Factory Catch can
- Better Oil Cooler and relocated oil filter (bottom)
- 4 Channel ABS coupled with Traction Control available
- No. 1 compression ring described as 'stainless steel' instead of just 'steel'. Oil ring is described as 'stainless steel' instead of 'a combination of steel and stainless steel'.
01-05-2004, 04:14 PM
#4
i probably hate you
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Denzel, WA
Posts: 4,559
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
personally i would go with a second gen. if youre going all out, youll be changing the parts that are different, parts are easier to get, and (i think) the 3rd gen ecu is not too fond of our petrol.
01-05-2004, 04:43 PM
#7
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,538
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
from what i can see there is alot of little things would nice to have from 3rd gen..
Oil pan having more baffles to reduce lost of oil pressure form conitious direction of turn(if mr2's ever had the problem)
But as matt said about ecu ill take his word for it cause jetronic in genreal sucks ass
Intake manfifold seems better
Better head cooling may help detantion from the heating of exahsut vavles. Not sure I'm not big mr2 person.
Matt are exhaust side valves in head filled with sodium?
But all in all if you arent going motor crazy liek noshoes is.. As matt said get 2nd gen.
no shoes =
Oil pan having more baffles to reduce lost of oil pressure form conitious direction of turn(if mr2's ever had the problem)
But as matt said about ecu ill take his word for it cause jetronic in genreal sucks ass
Intake manfifold seems better
Better head cooling may help detantion from the heating of exahsut vavles. Not sure I'm not big mr2 person.
Matt are exhaust side valves in head filled with sodium?
But all in all if you arent going motor crazy liek noshoes is.. As matt said get 2nd gen.
no shoes =
01-05-2004, 07:17 PM
#9
BRB, shark week.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Boosted2003
from what i can see there is alot of little things would nice to have from 3rd gen..
Oil pan having more baffles to reduce lost of oil pressure form conitious direction of turn(if mr2's ever had the problem)
But as matt said about ecu ill take his word for it cause jetronic in genreal sucks ass
Intake manfifold seems better
Better head cooling may help detantion from the heating of exahsut vavles. Not sure I'm not big mr2 person.
Matt are exhaust side valves in head filled with sodium?
But all in all if you arent going motor crazy liek noshoes is.. As matt said get 2nd gen.
from what i can see there is alot of little things would nice to have from 3rd gen..
Oil pan having more baffles to reduce lost of oil pressure form conitious direction of turn(if mr2's ever had the problem)
But as matt said about ecu ill take his word for it cause jetronic in genreal sucks ass
Intake manfifold seems better
Better head cooling may help detantion from the heating of exahsut vavles. Not sure I'm not big mr2 person.
Matt are exhaust side valves in head filled with sodium?
But all in all if you arent going motor crazy liek noshoes is.. As matt said get 2nd gen.
I'm not to worried about the intake manifold, as I'm sure it will be replaced with an aftermarket one. I'm sure I'll rip out TVIS too...
Yeah, I don't think I'll go as in depth as Mr. NoShoes himself... I don't have that kind of money. :-D
Tony and Matt, thanks for your feedback.
Hey Matt/Tony, another question. Mods, what would you do with $3000? Tell me if this sounds about right to you:
ct20b, intake, downpipe, boost gauge, fuel cut defencer, manual boost controler, Remove muffler add straight pipe, gut out secondary cat, water injection, Intercooler or EMS...