coilovers/springs...
 

I understand the difference. One is more expensive than the other. One is adjustable. LOL But my questions are these...

1. Who "tunes" the coilovers? ( I would guess that's how you put it)

2. Do you have a street and track setting? ( I know it's manual, do you change the settings on the reguar?)

3. I don't want to just lower my car, I want it to handle better.(which will be better)

4. Ride quality? (differences please)

I am definately a suspension newb. I have no clue about any of it. Unless it's lowering a p-up or suburban. :)

Re: coilovers/springs...
 

whoa

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Yep that helps alot. Thanks close thread...All my questions are answered. :rolleyes:

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most coilover company's have only 2 spring rate's so they basicaly suck! (all bouncey and shit)
ground controls and couple others actual have some nice shit. make sure you don't skimp on struts get something adjustable! agx koni's etc..

Re: coilovers/springs...
 

i'm a noob also, but i can add some insight atleast.

1) you can "tune" your suspension. coilovers come with lots of adjustments, dampning settings, ride height, and spring rate. THe more expensive coilovers come with more adjustments, the cheaper ones come with presets. Usually a generic spring rate with a relative stiff dampning. If you buy springs from a company, most of the time they will allow you to choose your own spring rate. BUt yeah...tuning means you have to have access to a track and play with your settings over and over.

2) Well, most of the expensive ones allow you to change dampning settings. So you would select a softer setting for street, and harder setting for track. Tein makes EDFC which you can change many settings within the cabin. But on a daily driver, i would imagine one would just set-it and forget it. Atleast thats what i would do.

3) lowering your car will make your car handle better ( typcially) it lowers the cg.

4) Usually coilover dampners are harsh. They usually come with pillowball metal topmounts...which means there is no give between your suspension and your chassis. They usually are accompanied with a loud clunk's and creaks. Springs/shock combos usually retain stock topmounts so its a easier ride.

this is my generic philosophy,

daily driver no roadcourse or autoxing = spring/shock combo
daily driver w/occasional autoxing, roadcourse = coilovers
track slut = coilovers

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thanks guys...now im looking at the tein coilovers I plan to autox monthly, road race ocasionally and drive the bitch to work everyday...Which "type" would I be best off w/

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sounds like the TEIN Type FLEX would be your best bet..

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Any brand coilover should work for you. Tein is a good company that specialize in suspension. HKS and ZEAL, Tanabe makes some awsome coilovers as well. Ground Control and Koni's have been in the game for a while..and im sure you can call them and get some good help for the type you need. Blistein's are awsome too. I don't have experience with some offshoot brands ie, omnipower, megan racing...you would have to ask about them.

Just don't get some crappy springs and adj. perch combo that you find on ebay. They arn't true coilover dampners...just adjustable perch's for springs.

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as it stands, pay attention to what jkim is saying and ignore the crap posted prior to his.

if you want to get the most out of your coilovers, find a place that will corner balance your car. find people with the same car, who use their car they way that you intend to, and see what they suggest as far as spring rates.

ride quality will naturally go down, but how bearable a level depends on how the spring rates match with the dampers, and what you consider bearable.

what car btw?

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I went the coilover route, then decided to go with a nice set of shocks and springs instead.

I made this decision because:
#1 - I don't plan on tracking my car a lot, just occasional autocrosses and perhaps a track day or two.
#2 - It really did hurt the ride of the car for daily driving, it became pretty uncomfortable because of the state of the roads in my area. Construction sucks.

I opted to go with a pretty firm spring (Tanabe GF210) and KYB AGX 8 way adjustable shocks. This way I can keep the dampening a bit soft for daily driving, and tighten things up easily if I plan on autocrossing or simply doing some spirited driving.

edit: soulD he has a Mazda speed 6.

Re: coilovers/springs...
 

Honestly, coilovers are overkill for most people. The average coilover user just gets them, slams their car, and calls it a day. No type of proper setup or anything.

As Topik mentioned, don't overlook a well-paired spring/shock combo. For people who see occassional spirited use, they work fine. With springs made for more competitve use, there is a lot less guesswork going into getting them setup. Also, they'll be easier to live with on a daily basis. Coilovers can be a motherfucker on rough roads, since you're basically getting rid of a lot of what makes your stock suspension comfortable.

If you do decide to go the coilover route, the two main things you should ask yourself, is how much adjustability do you want, and what's your budget. Don't just be like.. oh, Tein seems popular, I'll just look at those. There are plenty of companies out there, you just have to narrow it down to the ones that suit you.

Since you have a Speed 6, it couldn't hurt to lurk on their boards if you don't do so already, see who's doing what, and what their setups are. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people who autoX and the like who can chime in.

If you're serious about making your car handle, and you go with coilovers, be prepared to put in some time getting them fine-tuned.

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Quoted for emphasis.

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Again thanks guys. I am on the mazda boards, but unfortunately so fat there are not to many people w/ many mods done to these cars. I have a feeling I am going to be one of the test mules. (I haven't decided if I want that yet).

From what I'm reading I am proabably just going to go w/ a spring/shock setup for now. Later down the road when I see how much racing I actually do I may change.

Btw I have been mentioning tein because they are the only company I have found that make anything for my car.

Re: coilovers/springs...
 

A spring shock combo can work fine as long as the springs are decent.

Stay away from springs that are progressive rate, which means the spring rate will change depending on the amount it compresses. Basically they arent that predictable but the ride quality will be a little better.

Look for springs that are linear and have a good spring rate. If you can find out the stock spring rates for your car and go from there. You want something that is stiffer than stock and wont lower the car too much.

As for struts, you can get something adjustable like Koni Yellows or Tokico D Spec's. These are generally designed with the stock spring rates in mind but can handle stiffer rates fine. A good damper can do just as much for your handling as a spring can and is very important for ride quality.

Ground Controls are nice because you can pick your spring rates in 50 lbs incraments when you order them and you have some adjustment in ride height.

Of course a good set of coilovers are nice and come with everything you need, but it can be $$$ for a "good" set and it can be overkill. I go to VIR and auto-x mine frequently and I have RSR springs and Koni yellows and I do just fine. Also, dont overlook good tires and adjustable sway bars, they will also help out a lot.

Re: coilovers/springs...
 

We're here to help. :)
This is a very subjective part of suspensions. The only one to 'tune' the coil-overs for you, is you. You can get it as low as you can, corner-balanced with the recommended rebound and dampening but if it doesn't feel good for you and your driving style, then it's completely worthless. If you do go with coil-overs, also consider getting camber plates to have a decent amount of camber for the street, then get it aligned and corner-balanced. Finally, just go out and play with it. They have the adjustments on there for a reason, go mess with them. For example, I have my rear settings a little softer than my front because I like the feeling of it rotating around turn, but some like it tighter.
The main different between a street and track setting are camber, rebound and dampening. For the street, most people like a semi-aggressive camber setting that won't wear out your tires; and a rebound/dampening setting that won't rock the filling out of your teeth. For the track, it's strictly performance, but too much camber, rebound or dampening can set your car off of equilibrium, so it's a balancing act. Some racers take months or years to get their set-ups the way they want them.
All cars from the factory are big compromises. They have softer springs in them because the car has to be able to pick your grandmother up and take her to church every Sunday and perform when you need them to. Either coil-overs or springs will help you here. But another (equally large) part of the equation is good tires. Because no matter how bad-ass you suspension set-up is, the tires are still the only things that touch the road.
Ride quality depends on the person and the set-up. Theoretically, you can achieve the same ride quality with either coil-overs or springs. But most people get coil-overs to be 'hardcore' with unknown high spring-rates thinking it's the shit. Plus you plan on running 19"s, that's another thing to consider since they will affect the ride quality also. Then again, I am a young moron and run coil-overs with 19"s everyday and think it's fine.
Honestly Bobby, for you, a good spring and shock combo with nice tires will more than fit your needs. See if a company makes a specifically valved shock and for a specific spring. (Turner Motorsports does it with Bilsteins & H&R springs for all BMWs, there has to be a place who does it for Mazdas.) The combo is probably going to be a little bit more money than if you bought the two components separately, but it will be money well spent.

If you do get coil-overs, please buy a quality part. Make sure it has a Koni or Bilstein strut (or any other big name) and the threads for the spring perch are part of the strut housing. Call up different manufactures to see what spring-rate they are and compare them with the others. Don't just go and buy whatever, do some shopping and some more research. Post up the links on here of the stuff you're considering and we'll critique it. :)

As a comparison, my suspension and tire package is complete overkill. I have the same set-up as the guys do who drive in the Speed Channel Series (except with softer springs) and I just drive my car to and from work. :)

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VERY cool site.

http://www.lumenique.com/Cars/cargen...iving%20p1.htm

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What are you gonna be using the car for? Just street, or will you be autocrossing? As far as coilovers and shocks go the majority of all the common choices are pretty crappy with the knobs doing pretty much nothing to tune the shock. Bilstein, moton, fox, ohlins, some koni's and some tokico's the first few being far more expensive but more "worth the money" than just about every other upgrade next to R-compounds and the latter being more run of the mill but affordable. Also, if you buy nice shocks tell them you want a print out of YOUR shocks dyno results, not just one of the same model, if they say no I'd move on.

Re: coilovers/springs...
 

Blah and Soul Distortion hit it pretty much on the head.

A good shock and spring combo would be fine. Just a good performance street spring with and adjustable shock, Ive had Koni Single Adjustables on every car Ive owned and Off the Shelf the rebound is pretty much dead on for most close to stock cars. So you are only adjusting compression. I ride full soft on the street and it still feels tighter than stock and when I get to the autocross I go full firm and adjust from there.

A quality set of street performance springs would be perfect for what you want (street, autocross, occasional track event).
After you lower it get a good alignment 1.4-1.8 neg camber is streetable if you drive somewhat spirited. Toe out in the front will make turn in more crisp and I higly recomend it for autocross. I run 1/8th out in front on the spyder but I would say start with just a little and go from there. If you have a buddy that works at a shop and does aligments thats great take it back after every couple weeks and change something just to see what you like. If you dont know somebody then try Merchant's or Firestone, They have alifetime alignment deal for $120 or so and it gives you unlimited alignments for 2or 3 years depednign on which package you get. Try starting off with a factory recommend alginment and go from there. If the car seems to snap mid corner or on exit. Try some more toe-in in the rear. If you have bit of rear Toe-in and it pushes its ass off Zero toe might work or a little toe-out (you will feel high speed bumps a bit more on the interstate so use rear toe-out in moderation).

With the street springs and a heavy car it will probably still feel big at an autocross. I highly recommend pairing any spring shock combo with a quality set of swaybars. I'm a big fan of the BBSS (Big bar Soft spring) tuning mindset. It allows a good street ride with the feel of big springs. It allows the car to use its natural camber curve upon spring compression under braking and exit and still provides the stiffness mid corner and on entry and exit. There are almost no negative things about a big swaybar on the street. If you get poly bushing upgrade to something with a grease fitting or it will squeak after a few thousand miles. I recommend stepping up to a rod-end endlink setup which will be better than the factory endlinks. And when I say big bar I mena big. In the front the bigger the better In a 2200lb car I run a 28.5mm bar for asphalt and a 32mm bar for concrete. Get the biggest front bar you can find and get a big adjustable rear bar to tune the balance. Hollow bars are the best of both worlds because they are lightweight and nearly as stiff as a solid bar.

The most important thing is going to be tires. They are your only connection from the ground to your body and determine the feel of your car. No Matter how well you set the car up if you run on some cheap Pepboy tires it will feel like crap compared to a real set of tires. For street and price Ive never had a problem with Falkens If you plan on going with 19's they make the F451 tire which is great, it has a progressive compound which get softer the deeper it wears so the tire never "loses" its feel Ive never had a problem with the cheaper Falkens either like the Ziex. Bridgestone has a good line of Performance tires with the Potenza if you are willing to shell out some money. I dont have much experience with many other tires but the Hankook Z1212 (or something like that) seems to be a great tire that "talks to you". A couple friends of mine have switched to them from Azenis and Kuhmo MX's and feel with the size offerings an competitive price thet they are a great tire and the tread design and compund combination is great for rain.

Also if you still are debating Coilovers. Ground Control is going to be the best bang for your buck period. Pair the ground Controls with a good adjustable shock Koni/Bilstein/Penske and get a couple different rates. Purchase about 3 or 4 different sets and try them out. Also the first thing people do is slam the cars to the ground. For the best balance and streetable setup you probably wont want to go more then 2-3 inches lower than stock. The lower you go the stiffer the springs would have to be. On a heavy car you risk bottoming out under breaking whcih will cause the car to push hard and feel like a dinosaur and mid corner the car will just lose grip instantly when it hits the stops which will make the car hard to drive on the edge. When you find the springs that you like and can bear on the street then sell the other pairs off. you will most liekly be able to get almost what you paid unless they are some wierd size. Also get the car corner/crossweight on a set of scales. This will keep your car balacned on left/right right/left transistions and help keep the car settled.


Hope this helps some. I'll be at the BCC autocross on March 12th. If you want to talk or have any questions.

Re: coilovers/springs...
 

WOW guys lots of good info. I think I am gonna go ahead and order a set of springs and start looking for an adjustable shock for the car.

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I know this is your thread, but I've taken in alot of information aswell. Suspension is something I can't understand. I want a good ride, but good handling aswell. Thats why I'm stock suspension. :(

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You can have both, just make sure your using good dampers and dont run some crazy high spring rate. Also as was said before you can set up your car with big sways and softer springs. Similar to the Mazdaspeed Protege.

Re: coilovers/springs...
 

The Koni Yellows are a great addition to the 6 but I will warn you that the rears aren't externally adjustable as of yet. Basically this means that you will have to unbolt the shock and turn the body, then bolt it back into place. It's not very practical for a car that will be seeing track and street use. You may want to look into H&R like Matt mentioned. They tend to use great, aggresive rates on their "race" springs. You also have the option of having them custom make a set of coils for your purpose.

I personally have experiemce with the Eibach Pro Kit on the 6 and yes the handling in improved, but the turn in is still a little on the mushy. Keep in mind that the car was on stock shocks and tires. Your tire choice will affect turn in greatly as well.

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Yes; I'm going with what I know, but what I know is with coupes. I now own a hatchback, and thats why I'm looking into coilovers. I don't like my car "tuckin'" but I like it lowered.


*edit I'm looking into a Integra Type R rear sway-bar, and a decent suspension set-up. I can get a ITR rear sway for cheap, brand new. I <3 my job. But this isn't about my setup. I was just stating, well kinda saying thanks. ;)

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The ones for the Z's are externally adjustable at the top of the body without taking anything off. I know not all aplications are like this (my sentra wasnt) but, thery are not all the same. Also, if you go with Eibach's make sure they are not progressive. I know some of the rear springs are.

I have no idea about anything for the 6. I do WAY to much research for nissan's, dont have enough time for other cars.

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As of right now the Koni Yellows, which come with shock dynos, are not externally adjustable for the Maxda 6.