Protest on mods...
02-24-2003, 09:11 PM
#1
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Protest on mods...
roadRacer said at the more "money related events" ppl will protest the smallest thing. as far as i know, everything on my car is legal to my class. but what is the procedure for checking stuff. i don't know if i want someone tearing down my car at the prosolo and then i have to put it back together or something.
...and old wise men, feel free to share experiences.
...and old wise men, feel free to share experiences.
02-25-2003, 11:23 AM
#3
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Mean, what you said is the rule of thumb at local events. If you get protested, someone usually asks you what you have done to your car and you tell them and they might say that you class was wrong and fix it so that you are in the appropriate classes.
When thousands of dollars in contingency money is on the line, everyone is not such a nice guy. Let me say that generally 95% of the people at a pro solo are about like the people at the local level. They know that this is a hobby (even if they occasionally win some money doing it) and do it for the fun. But there are a few that get serious about the competition and when things don't go by the letter of the book, protests fly. There are cheaters and there are people who pride themselves in catching cheaters. It is that simple.
As a first time competitor, even if you get into the trophies you will be given some leaniency. But the basic protest procedure is that protestor has to put up a teardown bond, if it is something that need mechanical work to check. This is usually based on typical shop rates. If say you have to pull a cylinder head, you can do it yourself at the event, and make a few hundred dollars if you are legal. If you are found to be illegal, the protestor gets the bond back. Some people have chosen to not teardown their car, and just accept the DQ. Sometimes this happens because the person knows they are illegal. Sometimes if someone finished 7th out of 11 cars they just say it is not worth it, they know where they finished and had fun at the event. It doesn't happen very often, and in your case I would not worry about it. If you know you are illegal, you might not want to play in the big leagues.
Most protests are not about internal engine mods. Everyone know that the most return comes from handling mods. So where do you think they perform modifications?
I know people who basically do nothing but run Pro Solo's and events of that level. They carry around parts books, factory manuals, factory tech bulletins, etc to prove the legality of their cars. If you get to that level, you will learn what you have to do to keep playing the game.
A thread of me telling you about the items I have seen or heard about being protested would be interesting.
When thousands of dollars in contingency money is on the line, everyone is not such a nice guy. Let me say that generally 95% of the people at a pro solo are about like the people at the local level. They know that this is a hobby (even if they occasionally win some money doing it) and do it for the fun. But there are a few that get serious about the competition and when things don't go by the letter of the book, protests fly. There are cheaters and there are people who pride themselves in catching cheaters. It is that simple.
As a first time competitor, even if you get into the trophies you will be given some leaniency. But the basic protest procedure is that protestor has to put up a teardown bond, if it is something that need mechanical work to check. This is usually based on typical shop rates. If say you have to pull a cylinder head, you can do it yourself at the event, and make a few hundred dollars if you are legal. If you are found to be illegal, the protestor gets the bond back. Some people have chosen to not teardown their car, and just accept the DQ. Sometimes this happens because the person knows they are illegal. Sometimes if someone finished 7th out of 11 cars they just say it is not worth it, they know where they finished and had fun at the event. It doesn't happen very often, and in your case I would not worry about it. If you know you are illegal, you might not want to play in the big leagues.
Most protests are not about internal engine mods. Everyone know that the most return comes from handling mods. So where do you think they perform modifications?
I know people who basically do nothing but run Pro Solo's and events of that level. They carry around parts books, factory manuals, factory tech bulletins, etc to prove the legality of their cars. If you get to that level, you will learn what you have to do to keep playing the game.
A thread of me telling you about the items I have seen or heard about being protested would be interesting.
Last edited by roadRacer; 02-25-2003 at 11:30 AM.
02-25-2003, 01:41 PM
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intersting. get paid to strip your car heh. the main reason i was asking this was to see how stupid it would get. for example, i've been missing one of my taillight covers in the trunk b/c the knob broke. i wasn't sure if ppl protest stuff like that. luckily i was at the junkyard the other day and found a cover and remembered i needed one.
as far as i know, my car is legal for STS. i don't have enough money to do any illegal mods anyways. hell, i still need a front strut bar. i'm just wondering if ppl are gonna say anything if i happen to do well at the prosolo. i really have a feel for my car so much now. i don't feel like i have to over drive it to get fast times.
as far as i know, my car is legal for STS. i don't have enough money to do any illegal mods anyways. hell, i still need a front strut bar. i'm just wondering if ppl are gonna say anything if i happen to do well at the prosolo. i really have a feel for my car so much now. i don't feel like i have to over drive it to get fast times.
02-26-2003, 01:21 PM
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If you finished first your first time out at a Pro Solo, you might get protested for something like the taillight cover, but probably not. Now if you went to the Solo II Nationals it is a different story. I know of one car in the past that in Street Prepared was protested over removing the windshield washer bottle. There was another one that was protested in Stock over a seat cushion that had been added. It happens and if it does, the protest committee usually goes by the letter of the law, they don't say that it is something that only weighs less than a pound.
Someone mentioned the cover over the spare tire in stock class. Let me explain what happened with that one time. The rules say that you have to remove all loose items from your car. It also says you can remove the spare tire and jack. In a MR2 of some vintage apparently if you remove the spare, there is no way to hold down the spare tire cover, which you can't specifically remove. But since it is therefore a loose item, someone removed it. It only weighed about a pound, but the initial ruling was that they were DQ'ed, but a clarification later came out saying that it could be removed if there were no provisions for securing it in place.
Most protests are not really about cheating so much as they are about defining grey areas in the rules (like this example). Plain and simple, most people don't cheat, but they interpret things differently. Very seldom will you find someone running say a ported cylinder head they know is illegal, but they will see some area of the rules that is not quite defined and try to do something there. The rules are not perfect and they never will be, but it is up to the competitors help define these things.
Someone mentioned the cover over the spare tire in stock class. Let me explain what happened with that one time. The rules say that you have to remove all loose items from your car. It also says you can remove the spare tire and jack. In a MR2 of some vintage apparently if you remove the spare, there is no way to hold down the spare tire cover, which you can't specifically remove. But since it is therefore a loose item, someone removed it. It only weighed about a pound, but the initial ruling was that they were DQ'ed, but a clarification later came out saying that it could be removed if there were no provisions for securing it in place.
Most protests are not really about cheating so much as they are about defining grey areas in the rules (like this example). Plain and simple, most people don't cheat, but they interpret things differently. Very seldom will you find someone running say a ported cylinder head they know is illegal, but they will see some area of the rules that is not quite defined and try to do something there. The rules are not perfect and they never will be, but it is up to the competitors help define these things.
02-26-2003, 02:03 PM
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We all know how fast Dave is in that damn accord. ( think he is sprayin) I have heard of people being protested in a stock class for drilling a 1/2 inch hole in there interior panel in order to adjust rear struts.(illegal weight reduction) So my recomendation is that you have your car fully legal to go to the pro b/c when you piss some of those top guys off they wont be very happy. I mean look what I did when you pulled away from the WRX on the off ramp!
02-26-2003, 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by roadRacer
If you finished first your first time out at a Pro Solo, you might get protested for something like the taillight cover, but probably not. Now if you went to the Solo II Nationals it is a different story. I know of one car in the past that in Street Prepared was protested over removing the windshield washer bottle. There was another one that was protested in Stock over a seat cushion that had been added. It happens and if it does, the protest committee usually goes by the letter of the law, they don't say that it is something that only weighs less than a pound.
Someone mentioned the cover over the spare tire in stock class. Let me explain what happened with that one time. The rules say that you have to remove all loose items from your car. It also says you can remove the spare tire and jack. In a MR2 of some vintage apparently if you remove the spare, there is no way to hold down the spare tire cover, which you can't specifically remove. But since it is therefore a loose item, someone removed it. It only weighed about a pound, but the initial ruling was that they were DQ'ed, but a clarification later came out saying that it could be removed if there were no provisions for securing it in place.
Most protests are not really about cheating so much as they are about defining grey areas in the rules (like this example). Plain and simple, most people don't cheat, but they interpret things differently. Very seldom will you find someone running say a ported cylinder head they know is illegal, but they will see some area of the rules that is not quite defined and try to do something there. The rules are not perfect and they never will be, but it is up to the competitors help define these things.
If you finished first your first time out at a Pro Solo, you might get protested for something like the taillight cover, but probably not. Now if you went to the Solo II Nationals it is a different story. I know of one car in the past that in Street Prepared was protested over removing the windshield washer bottle. There was another one that was protested in Stock over a seat cushion that had been added. It happens and if it does, the protest committee usually goes by the letter of the law, they don't say that it is something that only weighs less than a pound.
Someone mentioned the cover over the spare tire in stock class. Let me explain what happened with that one time. The rules say that you have to remove all loose items from your car. It also says you can remove the spare tire and jack. In a MR2 of some vintage apparently if you remove the spare, there is no way to hold down the spare tire cover, which you can't specifically remove. But since it is therefore a loose item, someone removed it. It only weighed about a pound, but the initial ruling was that they were DQ'ed, but a clarification later came out saying that it could be removed if there were no provisions for securing it in place.
Most protests are not really about cheating so much as they are about defining grey areas in the rules (like this example). Plain and simple, most people don't cheat, but they interpret things differently. Very seldom will you find someone running say a ported cylinder head they know is illegal, but they will see some area of the rules that is not quite defined and try to do something there. The rules are not perfect and they never will be, but it is up to the competitors help define these things.
but anyways, i got my promotion and more of a raise than i suspected so mods are gonna be coming, like the engine finally. guess i might as well find some plastic snaps also, lol.
next time i see you out there, hopefully soon, i'm gonna have to ask you something about the intake i'm gonna make. i can't explain it on here, but I want to see what you have to say about it.
Originally posted by blah
We all know how fast Dave is in that damn accord. ( think he is sprayin) I have heard of people being protested in a stock class for drilling a 1/2 inch hole in there interior panel in order to adjust rear struts.(illegal weight reduction) So my recomendation is that you have your car fully legal to go to the pro b/c when you piss some of those top guys off they wont be very happy. I mean look what I did when you pulled away from the WRX on the off ramp!
We all know how fast Dave is in that damn accord. ( think he is sprayin) I have heard of people being protested in a stock class for drilling a 1/2 inch hole in there interior panel in order to adjust rear struts.(illegal weight reduction) So my recomendation is that you have your car fully legal to go to the pro b/c when you piss some of those top guys off they wont be very happy. I mean look what I did when you pulled away from the WRX on the off ramp!
oh yeah, let's not forget, that was on the chromies
02-27-2003, 02:57 AM
#10
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i've been missing one of my taillight covers in the trunk b/c the knob broke
Seriously, there are very few people at the local level who are going to protest you unless you are doing major cheats (such as swapping a Prelude motor and trying to run HS). I think you will be fine with your car.