piston decision ...help real fast
03-02-2006, 03:22 AM
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eff'em
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piston decision ...help real fast
hey guyz i'm kinda new here and in a hurry...
i'm gettin ready to order a set of pistons and rods... the pistons are ross and the rods are eagle 4340.
I NEED TO KNOW REAL FAST WHATS THE STOCK COMPRESSION OF A 97 USDM GSR. AND WOULD 9.3.1 COMPRESSION RATIO PISTON ARE OK FOR BOOSTIN 10PSI.
LATER ON IF ANYONE CAN ANSWER THIS FOR ME... WHATS THE BORE SIZE IN MILLIMETERS OF A GSR. AND WHAT DOES .20 OVER STOCK BORE MEAN?
THIS IS A DESCRIPTION OF THE ITEM LISTED ON EBAY THAT IM LOOKIN TO BUY...
ROSS Piston (B18 pistons) kit # 99808 (8:5) or 99807 (9.3:1), both are .020 over 3.209 bore size.
Honda/Acura Integra B18C1/5 GSR Type R 5.430" CRS5430A3D rods 1.771 rod journal and .826 piston pin.
WILL IT REQUIRE TO SLEEVE MY BLOCK FOR THE 9.3.1 RATIO?
PLEASE HELP I WANT TO BUY THIS FROM EBAY CUZ I CAN AFFORD IT BUT I'M STILL GUESSIN CUZ I'M NOT TO SMART WHEN IT COMES TO THOSE NUMBERS.
PLEASE HELP.
THANX
i'm gettin ready to order a set of pistons and rods... the pistons are ross and the rods are eagle 4340.
I NEED TO KNOW REAL FAST WHATS THE STOCK COMPRESSION OF A 97 USDM GSR. AND WOULD 9.3.1 COMPRESSION RATIO PISTON ARE OK FOR BOOSTIN 10PSI.
LATER ON IF ANYONE CAN ANSWER THIS FOR ME... WHATS THE BORE SIZE IN MILLIMETERS OF A GSR. AND WHAT DOES .20 OVER STOCK BORE MEAN?
THIS IS A DESCRIPTION OF THE ITEM LISTED ON EBAY THAT IM LOOKIN TO BUY...
ROSS Piston (B18 pistons) kit # 99808 (8:5) or 99807 (9.3:1), both are .020 over 3.209 bore size.
Honda/Acura Integra B18C1/5 GSR Type R 5.430" CRS5430A3D rods 1.771 rod journal and .826 piston pin.
WILL IT REQUIRE TO SLEEVE MY BLOCK FOR THE 9.3.1 RATIO?
PLEASE HELP I WANT TO BUY THIS FROM EBAY CUZ I CAN AFFORD IT BUT I'M STILL GUESSIN CUZ I'M NOT TO SMART WHEN IT COMES TO THOSE NUMBERS.
PLEASE HELP.
THANX
03-02-2006, 03:33 AM
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I have a 20 valve...
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Re: piston decision ...help real fast
the magic number for boost is usually 8.5:1 or 8:1. You can still boost but you probably need a little more engine management so you don't risk detonation. As far as sleeving...eh. Its not that much boost. Somebody will probably chime in, but if you are only running 10psi, shouldn't be that bad.
if you still aren't sure, cross reference the pistons with the website they came from- ross for instance. And I've never heard of ross before.
standard bore is the size that will fit into your cylinder without any machining. .20 over has a diameter that is .20 mm over the size of a normal piston you may have to do some machining in order to get it fit.
How much are you looking to spend? Because you could just get some cam gears, retard the engine, and run it on boost without having to do all this internal work.
Did you do any research before hand or just thought "Fuck it, I boost the shit out of my motor?
if you still aren't sure, cross reference the pistons with the website they came from- ross for instance. And I've never heard of ross before.
standard bore is the size that will fit into your cylinder without any machining. .20 over has a diameter that is .20 mm over the size of a normal piston you may have to do some machining in order to get it fit.
How much are you looking to spend? Because you could just get some cam gears, retard the engine, and run it on boost without having to do all this internal work.
Did you do any research before hand or just thought "Fuck it, I boost the shit out of my motor?
Last edited by crxnfx; 03-02-2006 at 03:36 AM.
03-02-2006, 03:48 AM
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Re: piston decision ...help real fast
hey...thanks for the quick response...
i've done alot of research but the whole "bore, MM, & number thing is driving me crazy cuz i dont want to do a bad set up"
this kit is 709.00 bukks.
i had the stock d16y8 motor boosted before @6psi with stock pistons...
i would do the retarded ignition and the came gears cuz thats exactly what i had done before,,, but the thing is that the pistons rings on the GSR motor that i swapped are bad and is smokin real bad and burnin oil.. so i'm forced to gettin my bottom end re-done.
let me ask you something... so you think that the 9.3.1 CR is ok for 10 pds..what about is i want to increase a lil the boost for the track.. i dont have a EMS i only got a VAFCII and i use a 00 Si ECU
they also got the pistons 9.0.1 CR what you think about those..
thanks alot man
your prompt response will be very helpful
i've done alot of research but the whole "bore, MM, & number thing is driving me crazy cuz i dont want to do a bad set up"
this kit is 709.00 bukks.
i had the stock d16y8 motor boosted before @6psi with stock pistons...
i would do the retarded ignition and the came gears cuz thats exactly what i had done before,,, but the thing is that the pistons rings on the GSR motor that i swapped are bad and is smokin real bad and burnin oil.. so i'm forced to gettin my bottom end re-done.
let me ask you something... so you think that the 9.3.1 CR is ok for 10 pds..what about is i want to increase a lil the boost for the track.. i dont have a EMS i only got a VAFCII and i use a 00 Si ECU
they also got the pistons 9.0.1 CR what you think about those..
thanks alot man
your prompt response will be very helpful
03-02-2006, 04:20 AM
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Re: piston decision ...help real fast
hey...thanx alot...
so you think 9.3.1 is good.... the kit comes with Ross pistons... they guy that replied before said he hasent heard of that company.. honestly i have never heard of them before...
i found another kit that has the same eagle h beam rods BUT with JE forded 9.0.1 CR pistons...
what you think about that one...
remember i'm only gonna go with 10psi and maybe a lil more at the track..
since i dont know much about the compression #'s does the 3 and the 0 make a big difference.???
i'm gettin ready to order the kit on ebay... please help
thanks alot
so you think 9.3.1 is good.... the kit comes with Ross pistons... they guy that replied before said he hasent heard of that company.. honestly i have never heard of them before...
i found another kit that has the same eagle h beam rods BUT with JE forded 9.0.1 CR pistons...
what you think about that one...
remember i'm only gonna go with 10psi and maybe a lil more at the track..
since i dont know much about the compression #'s does the 3 and the 0 make a big difference.???
i'm gettin ready to order the kit on ebay... please help
thanks alot
03-02-2006, 04:47 AM
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I have a 20 valve...
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Re: piston decision ...help real fast
I would go with that second kit. JE and Eagle are like lesbians, they go good together. I didn't know that you were getting the bottom end done.
as far as the 9.3:1 or 9.0:1...your not really going to notice a difference. We're talking about horse power in single digits difference. if that. but the lower you go to that make 8.5:1 the better.
go with the eagle and JE, you can't go wrong.
as far as the 9.3:1 or 9.0:1...your not really going to notice a difference. We're talking about horse power in single digits difference. if that. but the lower you go to that make 8.5:1 the better.
go with the eagle and JE, you can't go wrong.
03-02-2006, 09:35 AM
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Re: piston decision ...help real fast
Originally Posted by crxnfx
I would go with that second kit. JE and Eagle are like lesbians, they go good together. I didn't know that you were getting the bottom end done.
as far as the 9.3:1 or 9.0:1...your not really going to notice a difference. We're talking about horse power in single digits difference. if that. but the lower you go to that make 8.5:1 the better.
go with the eagle and JE, you can't go wrong.
as far as the 9.3:1 or 9.0:1...your not really going to notice a difference. We're talking about horse power in single digits difference. if that. but the lower you go to that make 8.5:1 the better.
go with the eagle and JE, you can't go wrong.
That is completely wrong, do you care to explain why 8.5:1 would be better?
03-02-2006, 11:06 PM
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Re: piston decision ...help real fast
ding ding, school is in session.
"The reason for the turbo having a lower compression is that when you lay on the turbo you can get upwards of another 14.7 PSI on top of ambient 14.7 PSI for a total of 29.4 PSI for your intake air charge. That is before you even start the compression stroke of say 8 to 1.
With an NA in the other hand your intake air charge is actually under vacuum compared to ambient pressure and you are running well under 14.7 total PSI, say 8 or 10 psi. You can see that is a pretty big pressure difference. So the turbo gets lower compression pistons for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is to keep cylinder temperatures down to avoid self detonation of the air/fuel charge. Compression of air creates heat, - why a diesel at twenty something to 1 can run without an ignition system. In a turbo the turbo has already heated up the air charge before it even gets to the cylinder and adding the cylinder compression adds even more heat so you need to walk a fine line between turbo selection, level of boost, intercooler and piston compression ratios."
"The reason for the turbo having a lower compression is that when you lay on the turbo you can get upwards of another 14.7 PSI on top of ambient 14.7 PSI for a total of 29.4 PSI for your intake air charge. That is before you even start the compression stroke of say 8 to 1.
With an NA in the other hand your intake air charge is actually under vacuum compared to ambient pressure and you are running well under 14.7 total PSI, say 8 or 10 psi. You can see that is a pretty big pressure difference. So the turbo gets lower compression pistons for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is to keep cylinder temperatures down to avoid self detonation of the air/fuel charge. Compression of air creates heat, - why a diesel at twenty something to 1 can run without an ignition system. In a turbo the turbo has already heated up the air charge before it even gets to the cylinder and adding the cylinder compression adds even more heat so you need to walk a fine line between turbo selection, level of boost, intercooler and piston compression ratios."
03-02-2006, 11:09 PM
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Re: piston decision ...help real fast
from the JE Website:
"With 50 years experience serving the Pros, JE Pistons is the world's leader in high performance forged pistons for automotive, marine and motorcycle applications.
Our winning record speaks for itself, with championships in NASCAR's Nextel Cup, Busch Grand Nationals, Supertruck, Indy 500, Baja 1000, NHRA (Top Fuel, Funny Car, Prostock), SCCA Trans-Am, 24 Hours of Daytona, LeMans, Hav-A-Tampa, WoO, APBA, Paris to Dakar and many others"
From Ross Piston Webpage:
Utilizing some of the most sophisticated design and analysis software and engineering methods, along with ultra modern CNC machining centers, Ross Racing Pistons has met the continually developing need for the most advanced forged pistons in the racing industry. Drawing on nearly 30 years of piston design and manufacturing for all forms of motorsports, Ross has developed a dedicated line of forgings to accommodate a variety of engine configurations.
Cutting edge features of this new line begin with super lightweight forgings for naturally aspirated high compression engines, as well as high strength forgings to withstand the tremendous amount of strain and heat produced by extremely high amounts of boost and nitrous oxide injected engines.
Per application, our pistons also feature specially designed and CNC diamond finished skirt profiles to allow tighter piston to wall clearances.
All high quality Ross Racing Pistons have double forced pin oilers, split radius oil returns and gas accumulator grooved second ring lands at no additional charge.
Optional modifications can be ordered with custom pistons such as tapered heavy duty or lightweight piston pins, aircraft grade coatings and optional gas porting which will help your engine realize maximum power and efficiency throughout the entire RPM band.
Experience the power, precision and quality of Ross Racing Pistons!"
forgive me if I go with the guys with 20 years MORE experience.
"With 50 years experience serving the Pros, JE Pistons is the world's leader in high performance forged pistons for automotive, marine and motorcycle applications.
Our winning record speaks for itself, with championships in NASCAR's Nextel Cup, Busch Grand Nationals, Supertruck, Indy 500, Baja 1000, NHRA (Top Fuel, Funny Car, Prostock), SCCA Trans-Am, 24 Hours of Daytona, LeMans, Hav-A-Tampa, WoO, APBA, Paris to Dakar and many others"
From Ross Piston Webpage:
Utilizing some of the most sophisticated design and analysis software and engineering methods, along with ultra modern CNC machining centers, Ross Racing Pistons has met the continually developing need for the most advanced forged pistons in the racing industry. Drawing on nearly 30 years of piston design and manufacturing for all forms of motorsports, Ross has developed a dedicated line of forgings to accommodate a variety of engine configurations.
Cutting edge features of this new line begin with super lightweight forgings for naturally aspirated high compression engines, as well as high strength forgings to withstand the tremendous amount of strain and heat produced by extremely high amounts of boost and nitrous oxide injected engines.
Per application, our pistons also feature specially designed and CNC diamond finished skirt profiles to allow tighter piston to wall clearances.
All high quality Ross Racing Pistons have double forced pin oilers, split radius oil returns and gas accumulator grooved second ring lands at no additional charge.
Optional modifications can be ordered with custom pistons such as tapered heavy duty or lightweight piston pins, aircraft grade coatings and optional gas porting which will help your engine realize maximum power and efficiency throughout the entire RPM band.
Experience the power, precision and quality of Ross Racing Pistons!"
forgive me if I go with the guys with 20 years MORE experience.
03-03-2006, 05:22 AM
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Re: piston decision ...help real fast
Originally Posted by crxnfx
ding ding, school is in session.
"The reason for the turbo having a lower compression is that when you lay on the turbo you can get upwards of another 14.7 PSI on top of ambient 14.7 PSI for a total of 29.4 PSI for your intake air charge. That is before you even start the compression stroke of say 8 to 1.
With an NA in the other hand your intake air charge is actually under vacuum compared to ambient pressure and you are running well under 14.7 total PSI, say 8 or 10 psi. You can see that is a pretty big pressure difference. So the turbo gets lower compression pistons for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is to keep cylinder temperatures down to avoid self detonation of the air/fuel charge. Compression of air creates heat, - why a diesel at twenty something to 1 can run without an ignition system. In a turbo the turbo has already heated up the air charge before it even gets to the cylinder and adding the cylinder compression adds even more heat so you need to walk a fine line between turbo selection, level of boost, intercooler and piston compression ratios."
"The reason for the turbo having a lower compression is that when you lay on the turbo you can get upwards of another 14.7 PSI on top of ambient 14.7 PSI for a total of 29.4 PSI for your intake air charge. That is before you even start the compression stroke of say 8 to 1.
With an NA in the other hand your intake air charge is actually under vacuum compared to ambient pressure and you are running well under 14.7 total PSI, say 8 or 10 psi. You can see that is a pretty big pressure difference. So the turbo gets lower compression pistons for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is to keep cylinder temperatures down to avoid self detonation of the air/fuel charge. Compression of air creates heat, - why a diesel at twenty something to 1 can run without an ignition system. In a turbo the turbo has already heated up the air charge before it even gets to the cylinder and adding the cylinder compression adds even more heat so you need to walk a fine line between turbo selection, level of boost, intercooler and piston compression ratios."
Higher compression/boost works together quite nicely, hell just look at stock block s2000's making over 600 whp on honda-tech.. s2000's certainly don't have low compression..
on pump gas, one might max out on a high compression/turbo motor, but it would be beyond the usefull power for the street anyways, most likely..
I don't necessarily have high compression (9.8:1), but it runs perfectly fine... I actually wish I had higher compression, it still feels a bit lifeless down low, between 2000 and 3000 rpms, I would rather have a bit more off boost power..
I would love to hear from someone that actually HAS experience with a high compression/turbo setup, not just what you hear as the bandwagon rolls by..
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