Subie2Honda

Ok, figured I'd give this a whirl.

All my close friends seem to think I have a wiring issue, but I put some faith in the individual who helped wire it, so I want to be open to other possible causes.

I installed a built bottom-end B16 in my EF. CTR 12:1 compression forged pistons, shot-peened rods, ACL race bearings, knife-edged re-balanced crank. The head is put together with brand new valve guides, valve seals, valves, dual valve springs, titanium retainers, and GSR cams. The car is wired for multi-port, and has been converted to OBD1 via the rywire conversion with dizzy adapters.

Here's the problem: the car won't start now. The car HAD DSM injectors in it, with the resistor box still wired up. When it didnt fire up the first time, I switched those injectors out for stock injectors, and it still wouldn't fire up(NOTE: I drove this car to it's current location with this B16 running these injectors). It will crank over, just won't catch. When I spray ether into the throttle body, she fires right up, no issues, but shuts right down after the ether wears off. I determined that there IS spark, and fuel is reaching the fuel rail. I also used a noid light to determine that there IS a pulse at the injector clip, and still no fuel on the plug or in the combustion chamber.

So, is it that I have two bad sets of injectors? I'm doubtful. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

MORE IMPATIENT

definitely would not think you would have two totally bad sets of injectors.

so you drove the car exactly as it sits right now, besides the injectors, and now it wont start, correct ?.

when you say you put the stock injectors back in it, did you remove the resistor box and double check your wiring to make certain it was wired back to stock format ?

and another thing, its a common thing for hondas that are running dsm injectors to have some trouble upon startup, ive seen it take multiple times to get a car to start, for what reasons im not totally sure, there may have been some kind of wiring problem or maybe the injectors got overloaded and something happened. but then again ive seen cars with dsm injectors start right up everytime.

Subie2Honda

Thanks for your input, and to answer some of your questions, I drove the car, with a blown headgasket, running very poorly, to my parents house. When I drove it over there, the car was OBD0 and wired well enough to run(obviously). We replaced the head gasket, reinstalled everything, soldered a few crappily-quick spliced connections, and replaced the injectors. I didnt change any wiring for the conversion to OBD0- to OBD1(other than plug in the Rywire OBD0-OBD1 conversion harness and install the dizzy adapters), and I didnt do anything with the resistor box(other than leave it plugged in, lol).
Hence, why I'm so confused as to why the car wont catch when turning over. I'm lost guys. Thanks for the help.

mondyva

do u have a basemap for that compression?

DeFunk

You drove the car to a location on without a tune and you make no mention of claying, which is something that should be done with a 12:1 compression, more so if you do not know (as in have owned since day 1) the full history of the head -- which, I don't know if you do or not, though it could have been milled. Then you combine it with GSR cams, which while not the most aggressive as far as lift, with a 12:1 compression....

Check compression (hand cranking isn't going to make matters much worse if it's an internal failure issue) and perform a leak down.

Ok, just re-read. Did you mill the head like you were supposed to before replacing the head gasket?

What was done to the motor/setup after it got to "its current location" on those "B16 injectors" ?

And just how much ether did you spray in there as to keep it running long enough for it to be considered "running?" I mean, damn.

You left the resistor box in line when you re-connected the B16 injectors? And you're sure your injector drivers aren't shot now? In what may seem like very few changes, there have been many and I'm guessing a few more that have been chalked up as irrelevant, unfortunately.

RCR Roscoe

his longblocks prolly fine, it fired on starting fluid witch i WOULD NOT RECOMMEND using anymore tho...

if it ran on the fluid its a safe bet you got compression and igniton, if the injectors are getting a pulse (did you check them all?) but still no fuel have you made sure your feed / return lines are hooked up right and that your fuel pressure regulator is good and your fuel pump is coming on and staying on while cranking? i would make some sort of effort to check fuel pressure on the rail while cranking.

Subie2Honda

I didn't spray much, as I know that starting fluid/ether is a bad idea to use for long periods; its an easy way to tear up the rings I know. As for the injectors, I don't see how I could have managed to mess them up. If I could somehow have fucked them up, let me know. I did not at any time remove the resistor box...it was connected for both sets of injectors.

The head was completely redone at Fisher Machine Shop in Fredericksburg, and I DID NOT opt to have it milled, but rather planed to ensure it was true. By milling it too much further, I would risk bumping up the compression.

When I pulled the cap nut from the end of the fuel rail to change the injectors, fuel sprayed everywhere. So as for fuel pressure, CHECK. The ecu is a chipped PO6, done by Shawn Ramey from RameyBuilt. It is chipped with a 12:1 compression basemap, with O2 sensors deleted and vtec chipped in. The head gasket is brand new, and I'm not a complete dummy when it comes to this stuff, but I can't forsee something going wrong in terms of gaskets/seals. Who knows though. When I checked, two of the four injector clips are getting pulse - I check them with a noid light. As for the other two, I did not check. If two out the four injectors were firing, it would still attempt to start at the least, and then I would have a misfire condition. But in this case, I just cant get it to start at all.

Thanks for all the input. What do you guys think?

mondyva

you didnt accidently switch the clips into the wrong order did you?

DeFunk

Likely, the clips are where they should be, unless he removed all traces of wire wrap, as the length is usually a good indicator of which clip belongs to which injector, albeit, it's still possible of course that they're not hooked up correctly, I just doubt it really.

Where the "fun" could have come into play, is the injector resistor box, this is where (if any) injector misordering has come into play. It may be incorrectly wired as to create a misorder of sorts.

Though, yes, running the stock high impedence injectors with the resistor box could damage your injector drivers ("these" are found in the ECU itself not the injectors) due to incorrect impedence, despite the more likely case is that the injector simply wont open.

Did Shawn assemble the head and longblock? If so, then I'm no longer concerned about the build at all.

Pull the rail/injector assembly out from the intake manifold, pull the ignition wires and see if they are injecting fuel.

Fabrik8

What is a "noid light"? Are you checking that you have a pulse (switching to ground while active) on the ECU side, and are you checking that you have constant 12V power to all the injectors on their input side..?


That's exactly backwards. Injector drivers are only damaged by overcurrent or overvoltage, and the overvoltage is not a factor here (and is very well protected against usually). Adding more resistance (with a resistor box) in series with high impedance injectors only lowers the injector current even more, so there is even less chance of damaging the injector drivers.

If the injector drivers are damaged, they didn't get that way while using high impedance injectors in any configuration unless there was a wiring error.