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lamonte619 07-22-2009 11:42 PM

gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 
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i have a built b20vtec with a garrett gt40r turbo and i made 420hp and 300tq on 21 lbs on a mustang dyno today. i wanna know why the turbo stops making power after 7000. the turbo has a .95 t4 ar. and i am running skunk2 pro2 cams. with like 9.1 compression. i am aiming for 500hp. is this a common thing with this turbo. boost doesnt fall but power does. please please PLEASE HELP ASAP. THANKS

NaIsGay 07-23-2009 02:57 AM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 

Originally Posted by lamonte619 (Post 5472642)
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i have a built b20vtec with a garrett gt40r turbo and i made 420hp and 300tq on 21 lbs on a mustang dyno today. i wanna know why the turbo stops making power after 7000. the turbo has a .95 t4 ar. and i am running skunk2 pro2 cams. with like 9.1 compression. i am aiming for 500hp. is this a common thing with this turbo. boost doesnt fall but power does. please please PLEASE HELP ASAP. THANKS

Whose doing the tuning?

WALL-E 07-23-2009 03:33 AM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 

Originally Posted by lamonte619 (Post 5472642)
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i have a built b20vtec with a garrett gt40r turbo and i made 420hp and 300tq on 21 lbs on a mustang dyno today. i wanna know why the turbo stops making power after 7000. the turbo has a .95 t4 ar. and i am running skunk2 pro2 cams. with like 9.1 compression. i am aiming for 500hp. is this a common thing with this turbo. boost doesnt fall but power does. please please PLEASE HELP ASAP. THANKS

You should be making 4xxwhp on 12-14lbs with that set-up. Id get that thing to Matt Shue asap, he will surely get 600+ out of the thing if the fueling is there.

NaIsGay 07-23-2009 03:48 AM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 

Originally Posted by WALL-E (Post 5472711)
You should be making 4xxwhp on 12-14lbs with that set-up. Id get that thing to Matt Shue asap, he will surely get 600+ out of the thing if the fueling is there.

Yeah power is really low for that psi. Hopefully its sleeved as well.

OP Whyd you decide to go with pro 2s instead of pro 1s? I made 524whp on 18psi and 630wp on 25psi on a 35r with ctrs so something is def wrong with your setup

wright 07-23-2009 04:36 AM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 
I made 411 on a T4T67 at 15 lbs. I would think that with you setup you should make over 500, depending on the fuel system.

lamonte619 07-23-2009 07:53 AM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 
yea thanks guys for telling me u make good power but u have WAY different turbos and im really trying to find out if my turbo or cams are too big. maybe a smaller hotside or some thing. i went with pro 2 cause i got them at a nice deal brand new. but would trade for pro1 cams

lamonte619 07-23-2009 07:55 AM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 

Originally Posted by wright (Post 5472823)
I made 411 on a T4T67 at 15 lbs. I would think that with you setup you should make over 500, depending on the fuel system.

what hotside and cams do u have thanks man

wright 07-23-2009 07:59 AM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 

Originally Posted by lamonte619 (Post 5473369)
yea thanks guys for telling me u make good power but u have WAY different turbos and im really trying to find out if my turbo or cams are too big. maybe a smaller hotside or some thing. i went with pro 2 cause i got them at a nice deal brand new. but would trade for pro1 cams


I think that we are all trying to say that you have something going on that needs to be looked at. I made 845 with a S372 at 24-28 lbs and OE Honda cams.

Like said let another tuner look at it.

Fabrik8 07-23-2009 03:32 PM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 
Yeah, there has to be a bottleneck somewhere with that amount of power from a GT40R.

What's the full engine and exhaust setup?

stinks 07-23-2009 04:11 PM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 
contact shad. @ accuracy automotive

nismo 07-23-2009 04:14 PM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 
get your tune right bro.


there are 30r's making more power at that amount of boost out there. lol

tired hatch 07-23-2009 04:28 PM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 

Originally Posted by stinks (Post 5474963)
contact shad. @ accuracy automotive

lol i was getting ready to say that and dont put it on a mustang dyno

stinks 07-23-2009 04:33 PM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 
mustang dyno<cig lighter plug in g force meter

Fabrik8 07-23-2009 04:41 PM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 

Originally Posted by tired hatch (Post 5475020)
and dont put it on a mustang dyno unless you want accurate power numbers

Fixed it for you. You guys should stop spreading misinformation. Mustang dynos are very accurate but people tend to not like them them because they tend to give lower power readings than DynoJet dynos (lower numbers doesn't mean that the higher numbers are actually accurate).

Put it this way: If you go to two different dynos, and get two different sets of output graphs, chances are good that one of the dynos is not accurate. If one of those dynos is an inertial unit, that would be the one I'd mistrust first.

madsteez 07-23-2009 04:55 PM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 
its cause Dyno Inc tuned that shit

sohc_mshue 07-23-2009 04:59 PM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 

Originally Posted by tired hatch (Post 5475020)
lol i was getting ready to say that and dont put it on a mustang dyno

wow....like Fabrik8 said lots of misinformation here. Mustang dyno > dynojet for sure.

I Love (.)(.) 07-23-2009 05:06 PM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 
^go see this guy

lamonte619 07-23-2009 08:28 PM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 
thanks guys but not the dyno and not the tunner. both are great it look like i have way 2 big of cam in my car and tryinng to get ride of them now for some pro1's. and yes mustang dyno are probably the most accurate dyno out there. people dont like them cause they hurt feeling. if i put my car on a dyno jet im sure to see like 450 but i wanna c 500 on a mustang dyno. but thanks guys for some help. my first turbo build. u live and learn bigger is not always better.

dave22 07-23-2009 08:42 PM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 

Originally Posted by madsteez (Post 5475093)
its cause Dyno Inc tuned that shit

.

wright 07-24-2009 02:49 AM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 
I know that there was a thread on Honda-tech.com about the Skunk 2 pro cams and the difference in power they made vs stock cams ect. The thread was done by Jeff Evens, hell I would even call him to see if your idea that the cam is to big and causing you to loose power.

Hell this is an option find a set of GSR cams put them in and give it another shot on the dyno. With out the specs of your build it is hard to say what the issue is.

lamonte619 07-24-2009 06:36 AM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 
thanks man but im pretty sure its the cams so im trying to trade them for some pro1's even steven trade

hwsurnk 07-24-2009 07:51 AM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 
I have a gt40 with i think its a 1.19 exhust side on my stock motor and I am not having any issues with making power..I made 480s on wastegate14-15 lbs so as several people have said I think it is def in your tune..

If you need any help with tuning hit me up and we can get it taken care of this weekend because I have a few other cars to do on sat.

Grease Monkey 07-24-2009 08:04 AM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 
It definitely sounds like there is something wrong with the setup, the only way I could see it being the cams is if the overlap was such that you were just blowing boost right out the exhaust, but it seems to me that would be pretty easy to pinpoint.. With a turbo of the size you should be coming into some serious power at that rpm level, not watching it drop off.

Are you sure the engine is healty? i.e. not lifting the head, not staying in vtec, etc?

mike nagz 07-24-2009 08:24 AM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 

Originally Posted by dave22 (Post 5475789)
.

.....................

another tuner in the 757 named in this thread made 650 on a 35r 2 weeks ago....................

ILLEGAL 07-24-2009 08:29 AM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 
those cams are meant for all motor builds. I had them in my all motor drag engine.

mike nagz 07-24-2009 08:30 AM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 
i know people making 700+ with pro1's in thier turbo cars, but again, they all have been tuned by someone who has been doing it for 15 years.........

what cams are in this setup that isnt making numbers?

ILLEGAL 07-24-2009 08:31 AM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 

Originally Posted by nagger (Post 5476896)
i know people making 700+ with pro1's in thier turbo cars, but again, they all have been tuned by someone who has been doing it for 15 years.........

theay are basically type-r cams, the pro 2's are pretty different.

wright 07-24-2009 08:35 AM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 

Originally Posted by ILLEGAL (Post 5476889)
those cams are meant for all motor builds. I had them in my all motor drag engine.

So are GSR, B16, ITR, CTR. They all seem to make power with a turbo setup so, can the pro 1-2's.

OP,
Did you get a chance to look or find the thread on HT? If I remember correctly Jeff Evans has issues with the pro 1's do to the key way for the cam gear (meaning that they were of a little causing power loss).

sohc_mshue 07-24-2009 10:27 AM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 

Originally Posted by ILLEGAL (Post 5476901)
theay are basically type-r cams, the pro 2's are pretty different.

The pro1s are def not similar to type r cams. They are much bigger.

To the op like I told you on the phone pro2s have been proven to lose power on a turbo setup compared to pro1s. You should also have them degreed like I said plus further adjust on the dyno. Those cams don't like to be set like stock cams and neither do pro1s.

SickEJ1 07-24-2009 10:55 AM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 
I pretty much skimmed threw the thread so forgive me if i ask or say something that has already been... anyhow, I had plans to tune with matt shue, but ended up going else where under last minute notification the car had been tuned before on a mustang dyno and made 470 hp on 28psi high , but i was looking to make more power or be re tuned on a dyno jet but ended up on the dyno pak none the less my car feels great and more powerful threw the pulling of the rpms i installed type r cams from the gsrs' when last tuned .
the car made 460 and like 296 torque which is like 10hp less then mustang dyno, but guess what my high boost psi is? 28 wow yup and guess what turbo i am running.... gt40 blowzilla.. turns out the compressor wheel isn't as big as we thought , she is fully spooled around 4-4500 and pulls continuously til shift point, i'm shifting @ like 8,9k ...my thoughts would def. be in your cam set up esp with your displacement and your turbo wheel/fin size..what stage? my story may not make any sense to any of you guys but its retarded.. i wish matt would of tuned it, but i'm satisfied for now..
cliff notes:
i was think9ing to myself why so much boost for such lil pwr on my set up..
both on the mustang dyno and the dyno pak they where both tuned to the same amount of psi
the dyno pak which read lower #s then the other feels way more powerful
:dunno:

coolva 07-24-2009 12:40 PM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 
For those sayin the Cams are too big, the tuner sucks, ect.. please explain why I make 380+ HP on 10PSI with those cams, same tuner, same dyno... I also make ~500HP on ~18PSI on 93 octane pump gas... again, same tuner, cams, dyno... (Oh, and for the super awesome tuners, Im doin that on less than 18 degrees of timing) Can we say.... SAFE TUNE???? Oh, and I drive it every day getting 25MPG! *gasp!* And I've been driving it since Oct.
btw, Im running a Holset Turbo... Its a huge divided T3 hot side, and 60/88mm cold side... so, yes, that will make a big difference...

Have I had ANY problems with the tune/build? Nope... only a sticking S2 TB, tranny occasionally refuses to go into 3rd, and the oil wont change its self. Other than that... I have done NOTHING to the motor except changed the plugs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuozyHiu5Jc

Feel free to check the thread from the november VMP track rental from longshots...
I drove my car there, jacked the front up, put the slicks on, lowered it, checked the oil, then raced, put the street tires back on, checked the oil, drove home. (no expensive fuel required)

The biggest difference between our setups is 0.5mm bore, I have lower compression (head gasket & head), and hes gotta GSR head, I have a B16 head.


Just so you know, he called Full Race to get info on changing the hot side and guess what.... THEY HAD THE EXACT SAME PROBLEM! (with different cams) As soon as the wastegate opened, power would drop off... What did they do? Smaller hot side. Problem solved. Why does it do it? I still cant figure that one out myself... it seems odd... but it is what it is...

NaIsGay 07-24-2009 02:03 PM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 

Originally Posted by nagger (Post 5476868)
.....................

another tuner in the 757 named in this thread made 650 on a 35r 2 weeks ago....................

35r's are the shit.

coolva 07-24-2009 02:11 PM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 

Originally Posted by CustomX (Post 5478004)
35r's are the shit.

I agree! Like 2 years ago, we did ~638 with a 35R on a 2 liter... :)

stinks 07-24-2009 05:42 PM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 
one of my friends made 350 with a 35r on a VW 2.0

coolva 07-25-2009 04:28 AM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 
Update:

Apparently he sucked up rock, nut, bolt, or something. Inspection with a borescope shows #1 to have some (not many) nice sized dings on the top of the piston. Leak down test shows 13% on that particular cyl. Higher than 2 - 4. Assumption is the object probably hurt the valve seat(s), and possibly valve(s).

Fabrik8 07-25-2009 07:43 AM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 
Wow. How the hell did that happen?

coolva 07-25-2009 08:46 AM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 
Who knows... Probably from dicking off with it in the parking lot with no screen/filter on the turbo...

I had something similar happen at the track rental I went to... I sucked up a set-screw for my steed-speed BOV... I was going to make my last run, noticed it started missin like crazy, drove back to the parking area, heard something rattling, then it just went away... still missing tho..

Pulled the plug... electrode was bent over and beat up a little... put new plugs in it... checked it when I got back to the shop... not a single mark/ding on the piston(s), 5% leak down on all cyls, and compression test was within 5PSI on each... no change in HP on the dyno...

Someone loved me that day.. haha

Jarrod 07-27-2009 04:31 AM

Re: gt40r on built b20vtec needs more power
 
I was gonna ask what type of headwork was done and what kinda of manifold and size DP he was running.

But Tim came thru with the troof so :thup:

And although I'll never take my vehicle to Dyno Inc, Tim has been turning out good results from the past couple of cars I've seen him do.


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