F23a1
10-20-2008, 06:56 PM
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LiveOne
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F23a1
Yo i gotta question. I want to put an F23a outta an accord into my civic sedan. I was wandering if anyone has any ideas on how to go about this project. I understand that besides the obvious harness and ecu, that i might need to use H series mounts. I figured that an H22 drops right into the accord, and to drop and H22 in the civic you need H mounts so H mounts are what i would need right?.. Any help is appreciated....LiveOne
10-20-2008, 07:57 PM
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Re: F23a1
Yeah I believe no mounts are needed for a H22 swap in an accord that came with a F22/F23 so H series mounts would allow you to swap a F series motor into your civic.
Might I suggest checking out the F20B and F22B swaps. That's a 2.0L VTEC Motor - bad ass swap no one does, and a duel cam non VTEC 2.2L motor that came in JDM Preludes. The swap can be had for fairly cheap and if I remember correctly it basically plugs into the accord, so you'd have the same wiring problems as a F23.
I don't know much about F23s, I recall them being kind of worthless - even more so then a single cam F22.
F20B civic swap would be out of control though. That motor supposedly hits VTEC like no other honda motor and revs to like 8.5-9K stock or something stupid like that. It's a destroked H22, so it has an even better bore:stroke ratio then a B16. It's like a bad ass, bored out, B16 - it does weigh more though.
Might I suggest checking out the F20B and F22B swaps. That's a 2.0L VTEC Motor - bad ass swap no one does, and a duel cam non VTEC 2.2L motor that came in JDM Preludes. The swap can be had for fairly cheap and if I remember correctly it basically plugs into the accord, so you'd have the same wiring problems as a F23.
I don't know much about F23s, I recall them being kind of worthless - even more so then a single cam F22.
F20B civic swap would be out of control though. That motor supposedly hits VTEC like no other honda motor and revs to like 8.5-9K stock or something stupid like that. It's a destroked H22, so it has an even better bore:stroke ratio then a B16. It's like a bad ass, bored out, B16 - it does weigh more though.
12-31-2008, 09:16 AM
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Re: F23a1
Yeah I believe no mounts are needed for a H22 swap in an accord that came with a F22/F23 so H series mounts would allow you to swap a F series motor into your civic.
Might I suggest checking out the F20B and F22B swaps. That's a 2.0L VTEC Motor - bad ass swap no one does, and a duel cam non VTEC 2.2L motor that came in JDM Preludes. The swap can be had for fairly cheap and if I remember correctly it basically plugs into the accord, so you'd have the same wiring problems as a F23.
I don't know much about F23s, I recall them being kind of worthless - even more so then a single cam F22.
F20B civic swap would be out of control though. That motor supposedly hits VTEC like no other honda motor and revs to like 8.5-9K stock or something stupid like that. It's a destroked H22, so it has an even better bore:stroke ratio then a B16. It's like a bad ass, bored out, B16 - it does weigh more though.
Might I suggest checking out the F20B and F22B swaps. That's a 2.0L VTEC Motor - bad ass swap no one does, and a duel cam non VTEC 2.2L motor that came in JDM Preludes. The swap can be had for fairly cheap and if I remember correctly it basically plugs into the accord, so you'd have the same wiring problems as a F23.
I don't know much about F23s, I recall them being kind of worthless - even more so then a single cam F22.
F20B civic swap would be out of control though. That motor supposedly hits VTEC like no other honda motor and revs to like 8.5-9K stock or something stupid like that. It's a destroked H22, so it has an even better bore:stroke ratio then a B16. It's like a bad ass, bored out, B16 - it does weigh more though.
12-31-2008, 03:42 PM
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Re: F23a1
Yeah I believe no mounts are needed for a H22 swap in an accord that came with a F22/F23 so H series mounts would allow you to swap a F series motor into your civic.
Might I suggest checking out the F20B and F22B swaps. That's a 2.0L VTEC Motor - bad ass swap no one does, and a duel cam non VTEC 2.2L motor that came in JDM Preludes. The swap can be had for fairly cheap and if I remember correctly it basically plugs into the accord, so you'd have the same wiring problems as a F23.
I don't know much about F23s, I recall them being kind of worthless - even more so then a single cam F22.
F20B civic swap would be out of control though. That motor supposedly hits VTEC like no other honda motor and revs to like 8.5-9K stock or something stupid like that. It's a destroked H22, so it has an even better bore:stroke ratio then a B16. It's like a bad ass, bored out, B16 - it does weigh more though.
Might I suggest checking out the F20B and F22B swaps. That's a 2.0L VTEC Motor - bad ass swap no one does, and a duel cam non VTEC 2.2L motor that came in JDM Preludes. The swap can be had for fairly cheap and if I remember correctly it basically plugs into the accord, so you'd have the same wiring problems as a F23.
I don't know much about F23s, I recall them being kind of worthless - even more so then a single cam F22.
F20B civic swap would be out of control though. That motor supposedly hits VTEC like no other honda motor and revs to like 8.5-9K stock or something stupid like that. It's a destroked H22, so it has an even better bore:stroke ratio then a B16. It's like a bad ass, bored out, B16 - it does weigh more though.
Looks like a de-bored and de-stroked H22 (87mm bore and 90.7mm stroke for the H22), with none of the benefits.
It looks like it has a 85mm bore and 88mm stroke, which is undersquare and doesn't make it better than a B16 (which is a nice oversquare 81mm bore and 77mm stroke). The rod to stroke ratio isn't that great in the B20B either, at around 1.45:1, which is horrible for high RPM compared to the B16 at 1.74:1 (and even the H22a has a better rod/stroke ratio of 1.58:1, as does the B19C/C5). Common rule is that 1.5:1 to 2:1 rod to stroke is good for high RPM. Nice 11:0:1 compression ratio though, so that's good. You could change the rods and pistons and get a much better rod to stroke ratio, like maybe as high as 1.65:1 (that's an estimation, I have no idea what would actually be possible with this engine) but that's not significantly better than a stock H22.
I would imagine that the small power difference between that and an H22 is down to the higher compression of the F20B.
So it's undersquare, and has a poor rod to stroke ratio, so what's so good about it compared to a H22? It doesn't have the geometry of a high RPM engine, that's for sure.
I guess my only other question is whether it has balance shafts or not... (I just found out they do; so same as all Honda engines over 2L. Remove those bitches)
Last edited by Fabrik8; 12-31-2008 at 09:20 PM.
12-31-2008, 04:03 PM
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Re: F23a1
Lolz. I'm just going by the numbers, pure and simple. I've never even seen a F20B, but it just doesn't add up on paper to be a high RPM engine. Wouldn't be my choice of swaps when H22s are readily available in this country and have better geometry and easy to find parts, but that's just me. I have different criteria than just being different from everyone else.
Sounds like a B20/VTEC would give you the same starting point as an F20B, but with a 1.54:1 rod/stroke ratio and who-knows-what compression.
Sounds like a B20/VTEC would give you the same starting point as an F20B, but with a 1.54:1 rod/stroke ratio and who-knows-what compression.
Last edited by Fabrik8; 12-31-2008 at 09:30 PM.
12-31-2008, 09:55 PM
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Re: F23a1
I've never personally seen one of the motors before either...and I'm not into hondas at all. Everything about the F20B I had read in the past (way before I even joined this forum) stated you could rev them to like 85 stock and that they have perfect bore:stroke ratio. I've also read/heard that they hit VTEC harder then any other motor honda makes - which I also can't confirm.
edit - from a real fast search I found F20B boreXstroke is 85:88mm. B16 is 81:77 like you said.
edit - from a real fast search I found F20B boreXstroke is 85:88mm. B16 is 81:77 like you said.
Last edited by WishIHadaSilvia; 12-31-2008 at 10:00 PM.
12-31-2008, 10:14 PM
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Re: F23a1
Actually, I'll take that back and apologize.. I found better info on the rod length, so the rod to stroke ratio is actually 1.64:1, which is quite good. So it should do high RPM pretty well.
It looks like there are a ton of common parts between the H22 and the F20B, and it looks like whichever head was the higher flowing can be used. Sounds like a cool swap, kinda like a 2 liter version of a B16/B18C but with the block/tranny (and weight) of a H22. Intriguing.
It looks like there are a ton of common parts between the H22 and the F20B, and it looks like whichever head was the higher flowing can be used. Sounds like a cool swap, kinda like a 2 liter version of a B16/B18C but with the block/tranny (and weight) of a H22. Intriguing.
Last edited by Fabrik8; 12-31-2008 at 10:43 PM.
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