Cranking/Alternator/Starter/What could It be??
07-26-2011, 09:59 AM
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Cranking/Alternator/Starter/What could It be??
I have a 2006 Dodge Charger and yesterday afternoon suddenly the car won't start. I thought I must have left something on inside the car and must have drained the battery.After cranking the car probably six times, I could hear the alternator clicking, it finally caught and i had to feed it tons of gas for it to cacth and i was on the road. I noticed that my a/c was blowing hot air and only out of the top vents. I usually have my temperature set to 74 and auto mode set to Low fan. It used to blow cold air at that temperature, especially when its 102 outside. I lowered the temperature to 66 and put it on high fan that's when it was blowing cold air as much as it would normally blow at 74 degrees and finally came out the front.
After stopping the car for 10-15 minutes, It started perfect. This morning It started perfect. Then this afternoon same exact problem except this time I think It took twice as many cranks, but radio, lights, electric works fine when it wont turn over. Then about 45 minutes later It again cranked after about 4 times and I had to give It gas. Gauges were all dead as soon as It started but picked back up, and same problem with the AC again. I took it to Advance Autoparts to check for battery charge and alternator and seems like its working fine, so they say. I a read couple of posts where they indicated the problem in the starter relay, especially after 70000 miles. My charger has 76000 miles on it.
Is there a way to check if the charger relay is fauly or now? or should I just replace it blindly? Also does anyone know any connection between car not starting and sudden issues with A/C blower in auto mode and not sensing temperature right? Hope anyone can help.
After stopping the car for 10-15 minutes, It started perfect. This morning It started perfect. Then this afternoon same exact problem except this time I think It took twice as many cranks, but radio, lights, electric works fine when it wont turn over. Then about 45 minutes later It again cranked after about 4 times and I had to give It gas. Gauges were all dead as soon as It started but picked back up, and same problem with the AC again. I took it to Advance Autoparts to check for battery charge and alternator and seems like its working fine, so they say. I a read couple of posts where they indicated the problem in the starter relay, especially after 70000 miles. My charger has 76000 miles on it.
Is there a way to check if the charger relay is fauly or now? or should I just replace it blindly? Also does anyone know any connection between car not starting and sudden issues with A/C blower in auto mode and not sensing temperature right? Hope anyone can help.
07-26-2011, 10:27 AM
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Re: Cranking/Alternator/Starter/What could It be??
Have you tried to supersoak that ho?
You are having some terminology issues;
A.) It wasn't your alternator clicking - it was your starter.
B.) You shouldn't have to give it ANY gas, its a fuel injected car. That gas pedal idea is for old carb'd cars.
Generically, a relay should be about $10. Replace it and find out.
You are having some terminology issues;
A.) It wasn't your alternator clicking - it was your starter.
B.) You shouldn't have to give it ANY gas, its a fuel injected car. That gas pedal idea is for old carb'd cars.
Generically, a relay should be about $10. Replace it and find out.
07-26-2011, 10:31 AM
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07-26-2011, 11:15 AM
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Re: Cranking/Alternator/Starter/What could It be??
So I'm confused. Will the engine crank fine but just not transition to running/idling properly? The mixed use of "crank" and "turn over" is really confusing me, because they mean the exact same thing. If you turn the key and nothing happens, it won't crank. You could also say it won't turn over, because it means the same thing. So please give a little clearer explanation about what is happening, just so everyone is on the same page. You're saying that the sky is blue, and that the sky is blue also. 
If the engine cranks (rotates) when you turn the key to "start" then the starter relay is working properly because the starter relay is supplying power to the starter motor. Is there ever a time when nothing happens to the engine when you turn the key, except maybe that the accessories like the radio, gauges, climate control turns on?
This almost sounds like a ground problem or a problem with power getting to the accessories. That's often a corrosion problem at either the battery terminals or where the ground cable attaches to the engine block (or chassis, or whatever), or corrosion where the battery power goes to the main underhood fuse block. Regardless, in all of those situations there is a connection somewhere that has a resistance that is too high, causing a voltage drop across the connection. That causes things to misbehave because they need above a certain voltage level to function properly. This can also cause problems with temperature sensors because they have a poor ground reference, but it is also likely that the ventilation fan might not be getting enough power to function normally. This is a case of adding all of the symptoms together and taking a look at things globally instead of individually.
I could think that this could be one of the main relays that supplies power to the fuel pump, ECM, etc., but that doesn't really fit after what you're saying about the climate control and the gauges, etc. They're on different circuits with different relays, so it sounds like something which can affect multiple circuits at the same time. That's why I'm contemplating a power or ground connection issue.
I could be completely misunderstanding what you're saying, and I apologize if I am...
If the engine cranks (rotates) when you turn the key to "start" then the starter relay is working properly because the starter relay is supplying power to the starter motor. Is there ever a time when nothing happens to the engine when you turn the key, except maybe that the accessories like the radio, gauges, climate control turns on?
This almost sounds like a ground problem or a problem with power getting to the accessories. That's often a corrosion problem at either the battery terminals or where the ground cable attaches to the engine block (or chassis, or whatever), or corrosion where the battery power goes to the main underhood fuse block. Regardless, in all of those situations there is a connection somewhere that has a resistance that is too high, causing a voltage drop across the connection. That causes things to misbehave because they need above a certain voltage level to function properly. This can also cause problems with temperature sensors because they have a poor ground reference, but it is also likely that the ventilation fan might not be getting enough power to function normally. This is a case of adding all of the symptoms together and taking a look at things globally instead of individually.
I could think that this could be one of the main relays that supplies power to the fuel pump, ECM, etc., but that doesn't really fit after what you're saying about the climate control and the gauges, etc. They're on different circuits with different relays, so it sounds like something which can affect multiple circuits at the same time. That's why I'm contemplating a power or ground connection issue.
I could be completely misunderstanding what you're saying, and I apologize if I am...
Last edited by Fabrik8; 07-26-2011 at 11:20 AM.
07-26-2011, 11:23 AM
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Re: Cranking/Alternator/Starter/What could It be??
So I'm confused. Will the engine crank fine but just not transition to running/idling properly? The mixed use of "crank" and "turn over" is really confusing me, because they mean the exact same thing. If you turn the key and nothing happens, it won't crank. You could also say it won't turn over, because it means the same thing. So please give a little clearer explanation about what is happening, just so everyone is on the same page. You're saying that the sky is blue, and that the sky is blue also.
If the engine cranks (rotates) when you turn the key to "start" then the starter relay is working properly because the starter relay is supplying power to the starter motor.
This almost sounds like a ground problem or a problem with power getting to the accessories. That's often a corrosion problem at either the battery terminals or where the ground cable attaches to the engine block (or chassis, or whatever), or corrosion where the battery power goes to the main underhood fuse block. Regardless, in all of those situations there is a connection somewhere that has a resistance that is too high, causing a voltage drop across the connection. That causes things to misbehave because they need above a certain voltage level to function properly. This can also cause problems with temperature sensors because they have a poor ground reference, but it is also likely that the ventilation fan might not be getting enough power to function normally. This is a case of adding all of the symptoms together and taking a look at things globally instead of individually.
I could think that this could be one of the main relays that supplies power to the fuel pump, ECM, etc., but that doesn't really fit after what you're saying about the climate control and the gauges, etc. They're on different circuits with different relays, so it sounds like something which can affect multiple circuits at the same time. That's why I'm contemplating a power or ground connection issue.
I could be completely misunderstanding what you're saying, and I apologize if I am...
If the engine cranks (rotates) when you turn the key to "start" then the starter relay is working properly because the starter relay is supplying power to the starter motor.
This almost sounds like a ground problem or a problem with power getting to the accessories. That's often a corrosion problem at either the battery terminals or where the ground cable attaches to the engine block (or chassis, or whatever), or corrosion where the battery power goes to the main underhood fuse block. Regardless, in all of those situations there is a connection somewhere that has a resistance that is too high, causing a voltage drop across the connection. That causes things to misbehave because they need above a certain voltage level to function properly. This can also cause problems with temperature sensors because they have a poor ground reference, but it is also likely that the ventilation fan might not be getting enough power to function normally. This is a case of adding all of the symptoms together and taking a look at things globally instead of individually.
I could think that this could be one of the main relays that supplies power to the fuel pump, ECM, etc., but that doesn't really fit after what you're saying about the climate control and the gauges, etc. They're on different circuits with different relays, so it sounds like something which can affect multiple circuits at the same time. That's why I'm contemplating a power or ground connection issue.
I could be completely misunderstanding what you're saying, and I apologize if I am...
The engine Is cranking fine, couple of minutes ago I went to start It again, this time, a completley issue when starting, before all I heard was a click. Now the engine Is trying to turn over but won't. And like I said I have to literally put the gas pedal to the floor for the car to start. After It starts there Is no problem what so ever It runs completely smooth. I'm starting to think your theory of it being a main relay that supplies power may be correct. The gauges and ac didn't act up at all this time around. My battery Is In my trunk I found no corrosion or loose wires on that as well. Thanks for your input though It's helped a lot. and apologize for the spelling or confusion or anything I'm doing all this over my phone.
07-26-2011, 11:33 AM
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Re: Cranking/Alternator/Starter/What could It be??
i has a similar problem in my old dakota, turned out to be a dead battery. i would got to start it and the truck would crank but never fire unless i started pumping the pedal (even though that does nothing) and it would fire.
07-26-2011, 12:50 PM
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Re: Cranking/Alternator/Starter/What could It be??
The engine Is cranking fine, couple of minutes ago I went to start It again, this time, a completley issue when starting, before all I heard was a click. Now the engine Is trying to turn over but won't. And like I said I have to literally put the gas pedal to the floor for the car to start. After It starts there Is no problem what so ever It runs completely smooth. I'm starting to think your theory of it being a main relay that supplies power may be correct. The gauges and ac didn't act up at all this time around. My battery Is In my trunk I found no corrosion or loose wires on that as well. Thanks for your input though It's helped a lot. and apologize for the spelling or confusion or anything I'm doing all this over my phone.
07-26-2011, 01:58 PM
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Re: Cranking/Alternator/Starter/What could It be??
Hey guys, I don't have much to contribute on this one except that everything seems like it can't be related. The A/C thing is weird, the gauge thing is weird and when you add the fact that mashing the gas gets it to turn over makes me wonder where to even start on this one. Normally if they were separate I'd recommend buying a new relay or swap it with another one if the car's got an identical relay that controls something measurable...that's the cheap-ass route. Fuel/startup sounds like a clogged fuel filter. Gauges not coming on for a minute- I got nothing for this. I hate electrical shit.
07-26-2011, 02:15 PM
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Re: Cranking/Alternator/Starter/What could It be??
Dodge = HORRIBLE WIRING PROBLEMS
Most new cars have "flood mode" the ecu goes into when you WOT on start-up. Meaning that when you go to start and you hold the gas to the floor the ecu stops the injectors so to clear out the fuel that could possibly/supposedly be causing it to not start. Not sure if this helps but that is what I think of when you say you have to hold the pedal to the floor to start it.
Most new cars have "flood mode" the ecu goes into when you WOT on start-up. Meaning that when you go to start and you hold the gas to the floor the ecu stops the injectors so to clear out the fuel that could possibly/supposedly be causing it to not start. Not sure if this helps but that is what I think of when you say you have to hold the pedal to the floor to start it.