derekuda

ok...so let me say first that i'm relatively new to the honda scene. please tell me if i've got my info wrong because i'm trying to learn...dont bash me, correct me respectively. thanks in advance.

i drive a 1995 honda civic ex coupe and swapped the stock d16 with a B16A2...or so i thought maybe( i specifically said to order the B16A2 from the 97 del sol / 99Si coupe (correct me if im wrong on that). i got the swap done at a shop...and out respect i will keep the shop name and all personal info out of this thread cause i'm not trying to give someone a bad rep or anything. just know that i'm in the city of richmond.

k, so i got the swap. everything looked nice, felt great and everything. the mechanic is actually really talented and precise and knowledgeable, i wouldnt want anyone to touch my car other than him just based on reputation i hear from trusted friends and word of mouth.

now here's the problem. a number of month ago, it started to idle fast on a cold start. if the engine is cold, say in the morning before i go to work, and i start it, the rpms jump up to about 2K. as the car warms up, the rpms go down. it will do the "idle bounce" once it gets down to about 1400rpm. that lasts for about a minute and then stops bouncing and rests at 1K. a few more minutes or letting it warm up and it finally gets down to about 650ish 700rpm like normal. once the car is warm, there is no problems with the idle whatsoever.

i have taken the car to the guy who did the swap, as well as another trusted mechanic to get this checked out to find a solution. what we have narrowed the problem down to, almost sure that this is the problem, the fast idle control valve failing.

ok, so i told my mechanic to do whatever it takes to get the problem fixed right. upon research, there are 3 different versions of the FTV for the B16A2 depending on the country of origin as well as the car that it goes in. we ordered the JDM one and it mates up perfectly as it should, but the bolt pattern is wrong. same with the EUR FTV as well as the USDM FTV. it seems to fit fine, but every bolt pattern is wrong. we're pretty much 99% sure that the FTV is the problem.... but how can i fix it if i cant get the part. well, 1 reason may be that i am not ordering the part for the right engine.

so we come to what i think may be the reason why i can't find the part... after doing some random searching on wikipedia about honda engines, i found that the first gen JDM B16A engine is stamped from the factory as "B16A" with no numbers following it. thus proving that it is first gen...which is a late 80's early 90s engine for integra DA6s and DA8s as well as an older CRX and Civic. my block says "B16A"...no numbers follow. so do i have a B16A2 like i had originally ordered, or did i get snaked and the mechanic ordered a B16A from a late 80s early 90s integra xsi that has almost the same specs and looks exactly the same thinking i wouldnt find out. and the y21 trans from the correct engine i thought i ordered (the Y21 didnt come with the first gen B16A)...as to cover up the fact that he saves roughly $1K by ordering an older cheaper engine that is virtually the same by itself, and got the correct trans to match the engine i ordered.

the differences between the B16A and the B16A2 are minimal. maybe 10HP, not that big of a deal since its just a daily driver that i wanted to be faster and more fun to drive than stock. the main problems with this is as follows:
1. the B16A sells for a tad over $1K for just the engine, and like $1800 for the complete swap.
2. the B16A2 sells for roughly $2700 for the complete swap with LSD...which is what i thought i got.
3. i drive a car built in 1995. if i do infact have just the B16A, then it is illegal for me to have that engine in my car and have it registered and insured and on the road because the engine is older than the car, regardless of mileage.

so...what should i do. i've included pics of my engine, including a pic of the "B16A" cast to the engine. i'm going to get a few people who are legit and educated about building honda motors etc...someone i can trust to tell me excactly which motor i have and all that shit. and based on the results of that against what the mechanic ordered and installed in my car from HMotors, i need to decide what i should do.

if you were in my position, would you consider taking this matter to court since i was possiby shafted on $1K, as well as having a possibility of having legal problems since the engine might be older than the body of the car it is installed in,...which might i add i risked my credit by getting a loan for it, and paid the interest for that possible extra grand i might not have had to pay for.

or...would you get someone who knows a shit ton about honda motors to correctly identify the engine installed, as well as the trans installed, and then confront the mechanic with the problem and mention legal solutions to the problem.

or...would you go to a different mechanic from the one that did the swap, get him to order the FTV for the first gen B16A and see if it fits like it should and solves the problem. then, if it does fit like it should, take the invoice to the guy who did my swap, and get him to pay for the repairs, and maybe a bit more compensation to me for being shady and totally fucking me on what i thought i was spending a shit ton of money on that i risked my credit for...

it's just fucked up that fellow honda enthusiasts would fuck over other friendly honda enthusiats to make a buck...so ghey if that is what happened.

i really don't think i'm going to care too terribly much if i find out that it is actually the older cheaper engine because they are virtually the same engine. i'm just pissed that i basically might have given the mechanic a generous $1,000 tip for fucking me over royally.

so you see the predicament i am in...if it were you in my shoes, what would you do?

here's pics:












PLEASE GIVE ME ANY KIND OF INFORMATION YOU CAN ON THIS......TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WTF TO DO ABOUT THIS.

THANKS SO MUCH!

*EDIT: I would like to add that when i got the car checked out by a different mechanic than the one that did the swap, i told the original mechanic that did the swap the situation and asked him what car the engine might have come out of so that we could order the correct FTV since at that point we had already tried 2 and both came back with incorrect bolt patterns. he told me it should be out of a 97 del sol.

VroomVroom

tl;dr

cliffnotes?

derekuda

sorry...again i'm kind of a newb... "tl;dr" ???

thanks for the response though! hope to hear back

0bd2eg

unless they changed the intake manifold and vtec solenoid, that is not an xsi obd0 motor. the runners are longer ,and the vtec solenoid is huge on the xsi and first gen b16a. take a pic of the fit valve and throttle body (cant see it with that strut tower bar) and ill let you know what it came off of. fit valves go bad all the time so i wouldn't worry about it.. btw, why spend 2700 on a b16 anyway for 3500 you could have got a 96spec jdm typr R and it installs the same way with the exception of the ecu. you would have had to get a chipped p28 w/a stock r base map.

0bd2eg

also look at the head and see when it was made on the casting date as shown in the thread http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread...998&highlight=

wright

OP (Original poster),

The fast Idle valve is under the throttle body correct (Should be)? I have had cars in the past with this issue and it does not mean that the valve is bad most of the time the parts inside are loose and causing the issue.

Take a look at this, and give it a try.

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1564019

or put this into google how to fix fast idle valve on a b16

bbsIx

so you were charged the extra 1k for the b16a2 and recieved a b16a thats 1k cheaper?


if thats the case id bitch until i got what i paid for. 1k is alot.

crxmadness

Im pretty sure too that you have the correct motor, but checking the casting on the head will verify this. Also just bypass the FITV, then you wont have to worry about it messing up your idle.

santana5star

looks like a jdm motor..since it has no numberage behind the b16a

wright

Did you get a chance to look at the engine before it was installed?

Like said above you can bypass the FITV to see if that is the issue. But if you are like me and like to have it look like factory then pull it apart and clean it.