Penetrating Oils Test
12-11-2012, 06:15 AM
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Penetrating Oils Test
The automotive kind.
Received this in an email from my supervisor. Honestly I don't know if it's bullshit or not, someone here might know. But I am going to try it this weekend to test for myself.
Received this in an email from my supervisor. Honestly I don't know if it's bullshit or not, someone here might know. But I am going to try it this weekend to test for myself.
FYI
Penetrating Oils
Machinist's Workshop MagT recently published some information on various
penetrating oils that I found very interesting. Some of you might appreciate
this. The magazine reports they tested penetrates for break out torque on
rusted nuts.
They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional machinist.
They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrates with the
control being the torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically
rusted" environment.
=Penetrating oils ........... Average torque load to loosen=
No Oil used ................... 516 pounds
WD-40 ..................... ... 238 pounds
PB Blaster .................... 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ...............127 pounds
Kano Kroil .................... 106 pounds
ATF*-Acetone mix............53 pounds
The ATF-Acetone mix is a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission
fluid and acetone. Note this "home brew" released bolts better than any
commercial product in this one particular test.
Our local machinist group mixed up a batch and we all now use it with
equally good results.
Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is almost as good as "Kroil" for about 20%
of the price.
Steve from Godwin-Singer says that ATF-Acetone mix is best, but you can
also use ATF and lacquer thinner in a 50-50 mix. *ATF=Automatic Transmission
Fluid
Penetrating Oils
Machinist's Workshop MagT recently published some information on various
penetrating oils that I found very interesting. Some of you might appreciate
this. The magazine reports they tested penetrates for break out torque on
rusted nuts.
They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional machinist.
They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrates with the
control being the torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically
rusted" environment.
=Penetrating oils ........... Average torque load to loosen=
No Oil used ................... 516 pounds
WD-40 ..................... ... 238 pounds
PB Blaster .................... 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ...............127 pounds
Kano Kroil .................... 106 pounds
ATF*-Acetone mix............53 pounds
The ATF-Acetone mix is a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission
fluid and acetone. Note this "home brew" released bolts better than any
commercial product in this one particular test.
Our local machinist group mixed up a batch and we all now use it with
equally good results.
Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is almost as good as "Kroil" for about 20%
of the price.
Steve from Godwin-Singer says that ATF-Acetone mix is best, but you can
also use ATF and lacquer thinner in a 50-50 mix. *ATF=Automatic Transmission
Fluid
12-11-2012, 07:32 AM
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Re: Penetrating Oils Test
I'm a bit skeptical of the "scientifically rusted" part.
Not to mention depending what additives are in the ATF it might not be safe for painted surfaces, while at least the Liquid Wrench is. Plus acetone eats up certain plastics, seems safer and easier to just use the commercial products.
Not to mention depending what additives are in the ATF it might not be safe for painted surfaces, while at least the Liquid Wrench is. Plus acetone eats up certain plastics, seems safer and easier to just use the commercial products.
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12-11-2012, 11:59 AM
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Re: Penetrating Oils Test
I'm a bit skeptical of the "scientifically rusted" part.
Not to mention depending what additives are in the ATF it might not be safe for painted surfaces, while at least the Liquid Wrench is. Plus acetone eats up certain plastics, seems safer and easier to just use the commercial products.
Not to mention depending what additives are in the ATF it might not be safe for painted surfaces, while at least the Liquid Wrench is. Plus acetone eats up certain plastics, seems safer and easier to just use the commercial products.
I'm sure most all of the penetrants are just a solution of solvents and a lubricants (and probably some stabilizers to keep things in solution), so the ATF/acetone mixture makes sense. The 50/50 mixture is pretty random though, and seems like some easy-to-mix homebrew recipe of convenience instead of performance. I would think that there are other chemicals or other mix ratios that would outperform the 50/50 ATF/acetone mixture.
12-11-2012, 01:34 PM
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Re: Penetrating Oils Test
Yeah, I was skeptical about that also. I'd have to see the rest of the test configuration to look at the repeatability and how the samples were selected. You'd think a lot of the test results could probably be predicted with standard lubricity, surface energy, and viscosity tests too. Breakaway torque is mostly just some combination of those factors.
I'm sure most all of the penetrants are just a solution of solvents and a lubricants (and probably some stabilizers to keep things in solution), so the ATF/acetone mixture makes sense. The 50/50 mixture is pretty random though, and seems like some easy-to-mix homebrew recipe of convenience instead of performance. I would think that there are other chemicals or other mix ratios that would outperform the 50/50 ATF/acetone mixture.
I'm sure most all of the penetrants are just a solution of solvents and a lubricants (and probably some stabilizers to keep things in solution), so the ATF/acetone mixture makes sense. The 50/50 mixture is pretty random though, and seems like some easy-to-mix homebrew recipe of convenience instead of performance. I would think that there are other chemicals or other mix ratios that would outperform the 50/50 ATF/acetone mixture.
half mineral spirits, 1/4 ATF, 1/4 Lard oil.
half diesel, half ATF
and the last one escapes me, but its something to do with coca-cola and ATF.
but i think you're 100% right on the "RANDOM" aspect of it. i highly doubt there was any research done or anything of that nature
somebody was just like, "well, lets put this shit in a bottle, shake it up and spray it on that bolt and see if it comes loose."
12-11-2012, 01:45 PM
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Re: Penetrating Oils Test
I've actually seen tests before where ATF-Acetone mix wins, so I'm not surprised. The problem with the ATF-Acetone mix is how it's damaging to anything paint, rubber, or plastic it touches though.
That said, there are other penetrating oils out there that I think are better, ones that do more than just penetrate, like Wurth Rust Off Ice.
That said, there are other penetrating oils out there that I think are better, ones that do more than just penetrate, like Wurth Rust Off Ice.
Last edited by marlinspike; 12-11-2012 at 01:48 PM.
12-11-2012, 03:39 PM
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I mean I don't understand where they can have an equal test knowing that rust/oxidation doesn't form in a consistent pattern across the board ever. This sounds more like a backyard experiment with someone taking rusted bolts and breaking them with lubricants.
12-11-2012, 03:46 PM
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Re: Penetrating Oils Test
ATF/Acetone is great but you have to be extremely careful about the application. I find it too risky to use in a professional setting most of the time. I use PB Blaster 99% of the time and Liquid Wrench as a last resort. If that doesn't work it's time to resort to more drastic measures.
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