Data Logging the car reveals terror

[Ninety7GSX]

Anyone have a good place to buy injectors for cheap?

I highlighted from the drop to 2nd to the first log after letting off.

[tecnic1]

I've never paid much attention to datalogging...
what am I looking at and who do you know the injectors shit on themselves?

[Greaser]

fucking ugly timing. you should have been able to feel that. yuck. put my Motec wideband on it. i just got some 750's for 80 a piece.

[Greaser]

oh my god 5 degrees of timing.....good god. i run 22 at full boost

[Ninety7GSX]

80 a piece from where?

But an afc won't support 750's so I will be stuck with like 660's or so till I can get the aem ems.

[Ninety7GSX]

Originally posted by tecnic1
I've never paid much attention to datalogging...
what am I looking at and who do you know the injectors shit on themselves?

The injectors aren't bad just do not supply enough. Look at the timing off of boost its in the upper 30's. And under boost it drops to 5. Base is set at 8. Its pulling almost all that it can pull to keep it from blowing.

Definately not good.

[LXative]

Looks like you got your work cutout for you for a little bit (or a few bucks). If that 12.83 was with your car being sick, I cant wait to see what it does running at full power. Nice to finally meet ya Friday at the track man. Good luck getting your toy straightened back out.

-Darren

[Ninety7GSX]

Originally posted by HendrickEdition
Looks like you got your work cutout for you for a little bit (or a few bucks). If that 12.83 was with your car being sick, I cant wait to see what it does running at full power. Nice to finally meet ya Friday at the track man. Good luck getting your toy straightened back out.
-Darren

Yeah man I was suprised to see your car when I pulled into the gates. I must say the car looks so much better in person. Next time I see you you gotta pop the Hood. : )

That time was as the car sits today with all the interior in. I think I finally figured out why the car wants to hop so maybe once I get the fuel right I can lay down some much better numbers.

[SteveOlicious]

ahh, one day my car will go fast, my car sounds like its gonna explode

[LXative]

Originally posted by Ninety7GSX
Yeah man I was suprised to see your car when I pulled into the gates. I must say the car looks so much better in person. Next time I see you you gotta pop the Hood. : )

That time was as the car sits today with all the interior in. I think I finally figured out why the car wants to hop so maybe once I get the fuel right I can lay down some much better numbers.

Cool man. Yeah I made the venture up to see all my buddies run, and to meet several new people from the boards (both successful). No need for me to pop the hood, shes all stock. :D

When will you get around to fixing the fuel system? You think in time to make another T+T at VMP? That would be cool, maybe Terry will have his jank back together soon too. The trip there isnt so bad for me, so I am game, might even run myself. There is T+T every weekend until the end of November.

[Ninety7GSX]

I'm hoping to get injectors before the weekend so I can go to domestic vs imports. If that doesn't work out I guess I will have to test it out at VMP. : ( I hate that track but gotta do what you gotta do I guess.

Hows the drive to Richmond drag way for you?

[LXative]

Never been, so I dunno? Where is it? Got a map?

[Ninety7GSX]

http://www.richmonddragway.com/

[MeanGreenGSX]

the afc can only handle up to 660's but thats a lot better than 440's

[PWRVTEC]

I can get some 650's for $250...

[Big 16GSX]

where can you get 650s for $250. I want them.

[s2k7]

Tune the nos timing and you'll run 9's pat. :)

[Josepi]

Originally posted by MeanGreenGSX
the afc can only handle up to 660's but thats a lot better than 440's

87-91 Mazda RX-7 TIIs come with 4x550s stock. There are different impedences between some, but generally, they go for cheap on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1871960112

There are two 550s from a 93 rx7 with a buy it now price of a whopping 60 bucks. Then send em off for cleaning.

[Blasphemous]

Originally posted by Josepi
87-91 Mazda RX-7 TIIs come with 4x550s stock. There are different impedences between some, but generally, they go for cheap on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1871960112

There are two 550s from a 93 rx7 with a buy it now price of a whopping 60 bucks. Then send em off for cleaning.
I have a set of 550 and 850cc injectors if someone needs them.

I don't want to say you're wrong MeanGreen, but... you're wrong. The AFC can tune injectors down %50. For example, on my car, it runs 550cc injectors stock (like Joesephi said), and I could plug in 1100cc injectors with an AFC and tune them down %50 to run like 550cc injectors.

[MeanGreenGSX]

ah yes i agree you can tune down 50%, the biggest a dsm can handle with a afc are 660's, with rx7's this may be differnent. A well known dsm specailty site has confirmed this to be true. I think it was road race engineering. Anything larger than 660s cant be tuned down enough with our cars.

[Heat]

I remember reading something about this. For example, tuning 1100cc injectors down 50% will not make them act like 550s.
If I cared enough about it I'd go search on dsmtalk but I'll stick with some 650cc disc/ball style injectors for $250 that PWR VTEC is gonna tell us how to get.

[Blasphemous]

Originally posted by MeanGreenGSX
ah yes i agree you can tune down 50%, the biggest a dsm can handle with a afc are 660's, with rx7's this may be differnent. A well known dsm specailty site has confirmed this to be true. I think it was road race engineering. Anything larger than 660s cant be tuned down enough with our cars.
Ok, I misunderstood what you wrote. I thought you were saying that the AFC could only tune 660's down enough. Why is it that you can only use 660's?


Originally posted by Heat
I remember reading something about this. For example, tuning 1100cc injectors down 50% will not make them act like 550s.
If I cared enough about it I'd go search on dsmtalk but I'll stick with some 650cc disc/ball style injectors for $250 that PWR VTEC is gonna tell us how to get.
Well, they don't act EXACTLY like 550cc injectors. The 550cc's will be at a higher duty cycle to support a given amount than the 1100cc's will be. So, to supply a given amount of fuel, the 550's will be working harder than the 1100's. The 550's will be smoother when they come on also because not as much fuel's being dumped into the stream at once because 1100's spray more fuel but have a shorter pulse duration.

[MeanGreenGSX]

Agreed, and i have no idea why 660s are as large as dsms can go with a afc, wouldnt make since 440s ;660 areent 50% larger insize,should be able to run 880's; maybe they do deliver 50% more fuel though. I really dont feel like looking right now for the anwer maybe later

[Heat]

I'm telling you, the answer is on dsmtalk.com
When I said they won't act like 550s, that's exactly what I meant. I didn't say they won't act exactly like them, I said they won't act like them.
Please refrain from stating the obvious when discussing things with me. It is insulting and a waste of both our times.

[Ninety7GSX]

I think the main problem is that our cars are tuned rich as fuck from the factory as it is. I pulled 13 percent from mine right now and have not upgraded the injectors yet. Then if you add a set of 750 or larger injectors on there it just won't work out.

Also the injectors don't quite work right under a certain duty cycle. (I would think) There's gotta be a minimun reccomended duty cycle as well as a Maximum. Lets just speak in theory right now numbers are just guidelines. If you are opening a 1000 cc injector for 1 second and spraying the same amount of fuel that a 550 sprays in 3 don't you think the air fuel ratio will be wack? I would think it wouldn't mix right.

Alot of guys I've seen making high horsepower (normally over 500) on a daily driven dsm have been using an 8 injector setup. I'm pretty sure they do this for a reason.

[Blasphemous]

Originally posted by Ninety7GSX
I think the main problem is that our cars are tuned rich as fuck from the factory as it is. I pulled 13 percent from mine right now and have not upgraded the injectors yet. Then if you add a set of 750 or larger injectors on there it just won't work out.

Also the injectors don't quite work right under a certain duty cycle. (I would think) There's gotta be a minimun reccomended duty cycle as well as a Maximum. Lets just speak in theory right now numbers are just guidelines. If you are opening a 1000 cc injector for 1 second and spraying the same amount of fuel that a 550 sprays in 3 don't you think the air fuel ratio will be wack? I would think it wouldn't mix right.

Alot of guys I've seen making high horsepower (normally over 500) on a daily driven dsm have been using an 8 injector setup. I'm pretty sure they do this for a reason.
Most of the high HP rotary guys use a stand alone ECU and roughly 720cc primaries and 1600cc secondaries, two of each. I agree that the 1 sec of a 1000cc and 2 seconds of a 550cc would be a little different. The 1000cc spray wouldn't be as atomized, but it'd still be the same amount of fuel.