The optimum tuning approach for a dyno?

[Jeff Taylor]

I plan on taking my car to a dyno for some tuning within the next few months and I have been wondering what the best approach for tuning the engine should be. While tuning, I have full control of the fuel maps, ignition maps, injector blast off time (time it takes for inj to fire), water temp ign. adv/ret map, etc...basically there will be control over the parameters that most engine management systems allow you to alter.

Anyway, if it were as simple as adjusting injector pulse-width dependent upon air flow and engine speed, things would be fairly straight forward...however I wish to optimize the ignition timing map to compliment the fuel map.

Has anyone done any tuning in this manner before? I am assuming I should first tune the fuel map with the lamda meter & dyno to sustain optimum A/F ratios and power throughout the entire rpm range. After tuning the fuel map it may be benificial to try advancing or retarding timing in the high and low rpm ranges to see what effect it has on power.

It seems like most aftermarket ECU's for the sr20det advance ignition timing by 7 degrees at low-rpms and retard timing by 10 degrees at high-rpms. I am considering setting the timing to reflect these values and optimizing the fuel map from there.....

Anyway, I just wanted to see if anyone has any further tuning knowledge that they could share so I don't end up wasting more time and money on the dyno than I need to.

[Goofynick6]

Sorry this won't help you at all, but where's the nearest dyno's to the c-burg and b-burg area?

Nick

[probesport_gt]

Turbo Tune In G'boro is the only place I am going to dyno Nick....

He doenst charge Fixed for 3 pulls. He charges Flat Rates and pulls however long it take to tune it to his liking.


Ray pulled 6 times the last time he was there!

[Jeff Taylor]

there's a new dyno in lynchburg now...and one in rocky mount.

[JS4KIKZ]

Have you tried Abacus Racing off of Baker Rd? I believe its $100 an hour for tuning and about $50 or $75 (cant remember) for 3 pulls. Chuck and Seth know thier stuff but why dont you give them a call and see what they say: 757-363-8878

[marshall]

tune fuel on 460 with the wideband. tune ignition on 460 with EGT. simple enough.

now who is going to be the first to call this way 'ghetto'?

marshall

[Jeff Taylor]

Yeah, that seems like the best plan -- Tuning with the wide-band for an optimum ratio while keeping EGT's in mind for timing. At least then I can get it roughly tuned before I take it to a dyno.

Just got done ordering a quick-reacting EGT probe from Aircraft Spruce for $30. I think I'll solder up the LED display circuit for it tonight.

:smoke:

[16g-95gsx]

When you get it in, I want to see how fast reacting it is. I want to compare it to my Apexi probe. Everyone says the probe at TRE is "fast as can be" so I want to see what a "fast" probe is considered to be as this is the only EGT gauge I have ever been able to witness.

[weavil]

Where is the dyno in Lynchburg?

[Jeff Taylor]

sounds good. from what I hear about the probe, people say they can see the exhaust temp drop 200 degrees between shifts, then rise back up again...which leads me to believe that it has a slew-rate of around 200-deg per second...none the less, it is cheap and should be pretty accurate

Weavil - SCRAM Performance has one now, along with a wide-band. I believe they installed a setup that physically attaches to each wheel, unlike a dynojet.

[16g-95gsx]

Originally posted by Jeff Taylor
sounds good. from what I hear about the probe, people say they can see the exhaust temp drop 200 degrees between shifts, then rise back up again...which leads me to believe that it has a slew-rate of around 200-deg per second...none the less, it is cheap and should be pretty accurate

Weavil - SCRAM Performance has one now, along with a wide-band. I believe they installed a setup that physically attaches to each wheel, unlike a dynojet.

I can see my EGT drop between shifts too, however I cant tell you how much off the top of my head. I am curious if there is a big difference.

[Rguy]

SCRAM, in my opinion is a bunch of idiots.
"I believe they installed a setup that physically attaches to each wheel, unlike a dynojet."

Are you talking about the Dynopacks?

[Jeff Taylor]

You, in my opinion, are an idiot.

Thanks again for contributing.

[Rguy]

haha thanks:) Tell me how much you know about SCRAM and who works for them and ill let you know how much they suck. Thanks for respecting my opinion and contributing back, dick.

[parknasty]

Hey rguy, have you dealt with SCRAM? What type of dealings with them led you to believe they are idiots? I've met one of the guys from there, Scott, and talked with him for a bit. He seemed like a nice guy with a decent amount of car knowledge. He has a Lexus with a 2JZ swap and he's done quite a bit of engine work to it, for starters. At their shop they have a dyno,(yes they use dynapacks) and wideband lambda. He knows the guys from Signal Auto very well, and from what I understand visits their shop as frequently as possible. I'm sure I need not explain to a know-it-all who Signal Auto is. These don't seem like the characteristics of an idiot to me. Scott actually seemed kind of humble, despite his connections(come on, guys, I know I'd think I was the shit if I had unlimited access to a dyno etc etc).

Basically what I'm trying to say is I don't know what type of experiences you've had with them, but from what I've seen they seem to be more knowledgable than most shops in the area.

Sidenote- Do you ever post anything remotely positive,informative or interesting to talk about? It seems like anytime you make a post its to try and degrade or put down someone. What gives dude? Lighten up a bit, get laid, smoke a cigarette, have a beer, then come back and take a stab at putting up another post. This whole car tuning and discussion thing is a hobby, just for fun, for me at least. You're stressing during exam time or something and its bringin the entire atmosphere of the drag western VA section of the forum down.

[Rguy]

Yeah, im probably stressing. But i have a friend who worked for SCRAM , was sponsered by them in the ECHC and was generally a very good/funny/Knowlegeable guy (now an instructor for NASA). For reasons he and I do not wish to discuss he was forced to quit and move to AZ. This was a GOOD guy who road raced because he enjoyed the hell out of it, any of us could have liked him. Why did you spend close to a paragraph explaining what a guy at SCRAM with a lexus and a 2JZ swap knows and has done? Doesnt mean he actually knows anything at cars, people could have TOLD him everything he knows, doesnt mean he understands it. Ive talked and have swapped stories with Papadakis, and im here to tell you he doesnt know SHIT about anything other than driving fast in a straight line. A lot of my posts may seem harsh, but comon, tell me you havent noticed the amount of stupidity on this forum (Intercoolers increase drag, tune on high octane, big wings and body kits are kool y0, etc). Im gonna be blunt when i say this, but the very fact that a person goes to a "shop" to buy parts or get tuning shows how much they know about cars. Shops are there to take your money because you dont know something and they can take advantage of that. I buy my parts online from shops and dealers who recognize that people can find the best prices easily( a VERY cheap and EASY thing to do these days) and make themselves competitive to buyers so they get more business. If i ever wanted to tune my car, i would show up at a dyno shop and just pay for runs and tune myself or test different settings at road courses.

Sidenote, i post informative information all the time.

Another sidenote, whatever happened to you challenging me at the 1/4? Last post i saw about that was you reacting to what ITR's can do in the 1/4 and never mentioning it again.

I need to get laid, my GF hasnt visited in 4 weeks. Ive drank a lot tonight, i dont smoke and i dont like some peolple on this board. Im also sure V8BRICk and a couple others are gonna chime in and call me an idiot, or a loser, or a cocky asshole, but i dont care really. But i know its the internet, and no one wins arguing on it. Im here for fun, and to learn from people smarter than me, and to educate those who need it.

Off to bed.

[Jeff Taylor]

Exactly, Scott is always nice to me...and offered his help when I spun a bearing at the track this summer. Chad, who used to work there, was always cool about shooting the shit whenever I stopped in. James Nichols, another guy I have respect for, has also been doing work for them off and on over the past few months and is very knowledgeable.

So...who is the idiot that works there?

RACE!!! RACE!!!! RACE!!!! b18c vs. h22a RACE!!! RACE!!!!

[Rguy]

"So...who is the idiot that works there?", the guy(s) who decided Chad was no longer needed.

"RACE!!! RACE!!!! RACE!!!! b18c vs. h22a RACE!!! RACE!!!!"

B18C-5 y0! As stated in much earlier posts, im always up for some LEGAL challenges.

[marshall]

i agree, it did suck what happened to chad, but he never seemed overly disappointed before he left. i'm sure he's not too happy about it now since he still hasn't been able to find a job in az though...

but what does it really matter if the other people @ scram are ignorant? all they have to know how to do is turn on the dyno and print out a sheet...

oh, and the other day when i was at this crazy party with sean glazar, adam saruwatari, and jojo callos, they all said, "what's up with our buddy rguy?" i said, "i dunno, probably just sitting around knowing more about cars than you guys." they agreed.

cocky asshole idiot...moron...and your mother also.

hehe

[16g-95gsx]

Originally posted by Rguy
Ive talked and have swapped stories with Papadakis, and im here to tell you he doesnt know SHIT about anything other than driving fast in a straight line.

Three words man:

It's his job.

if you find a 1/4m track that looks like an S then come get me and I will take back my statement :).

[parknasty]

Hey rguy, I'm up for a 1/4 mile sprint anyday, but the reason I quit mentioning it was because of the whole drag season has ended thing, and since you keep repeating LEGAL event, we're gonna have to wait until the tracks re-open again. I went to natural bridge a couple of times(1/8th only), but could never get off work and get my shit together to make it to a 1/4 track in the last couple of weeks in the season. Don't worry man, I haven't forgotten about ya. Spring will be here soon enough, and my ole H22A1 hasn't forgotten about her highstrung little B series brother that steals all the limelight.

We'll get our race, be patient.

[parknasty]

Why did you spend close to a paragraph explaining what a guy at SCRAM with a lexus and a 2JZ swap knows and has done? Doesnt mean he actually knows anything at cars, people could have TOLD him everything he knows


Ehh, Does this not make sense to anyone else?

Rguy, I must not know anything about cars either, because everything I know was told to me by someone else, whether through a book, magazine, classroom, or one on one. I guess you have me classified as an unsophiticated SOVA idiot too. How do I go about obtaining knowledge without having at least some sort of instruction or hands on experience like doing a hybrid engine swap(2jz in a lexus)? I want to learn this new technique of becoming magically enlightened with car know-how, ha ha.

I don't know the whole story about your friend Chad, so perhaps I can't give a complete opinion about the shop. All I was trying to say is from what I had seen, and again, I haven't talked to the majority of the guys there, but it appeared they have they're shit together on car knowledge at least as far as the import scene part of it goes. I think I have a partial idea of what you are trying to say though. I know people that read a magazine or go to a few car shows and pick up a few slang terms and lingo about cars and think they're all of a sudden ASE certified mechanics.

Rguy, can't we all just get along maaayyyann? heh heh. I can understand what you're saying about ignorant people and how they can tweak your nerves sometimes, but like I said, just take a breath and let it go sometimes. Seriously, you're gonna have a damn aneuyrism and die before you're even actually legal to drink that beer that you had last night, heh heh.

[Rguy]

You quoted me wrong, i said "Doesnt mean he actually knows anything at cars, people could have TOLD him everything he knows, doesnt mean he understands it ."

A lot of people can repeat info they have been told. Everything we know was at some point told to us, but that doesnt mean you actually UNDERSTAND it. I can tell you because someone told me that the barometer drops when its about to rain, doesn't mean i actually have any clue what it really means to say that. Yeah my point to you was that he might of just been magazine educated and you cant assume because he was a nice guy and his car had nice stuff on it, that he was a knowledgable person.

P-Nasty, :beer: , have one on me bro.

[parknasty]

I've been in that game a while, so its gonna take more than one. How bout I have a few? ha ha ....cheers

[Mugent3/t4e]

Chad moved to AZ?! WTF....thats gay.

[LT1 TA]

Hey Jeff T., how much power do you speculate you are making?

[Jeff Taylor]

maybe 240-260whp right now... I'd be happy with a little over 300whp once my new injectors are in and I retune the ECU.

[20psi 240sx]

300rwhp, you would not be happy a hole! you want it all! you want wheelspin at 150mph don't you!
shaun

[LT1 TA]

Hey, Jeff, with enough money and time you guys should be up around 300 HP, just about what I am STOCK!! Wholly cow, how much money do you guys spend for a whopping 230 HP!!

[20psi 240sx]

I don't know about jeff, but i have about 390rwhp and i have $2300 in engine, $600 for fuel upgrades with ecu, and $1500 or so in my turbo kit. i got the car for $1800.
about $6200.
of course i have more money in it total for the suspension, paint, wheels and what not.
but i'd gladly pay another $15,000 not to have to have a trans am! hehehe i'm just joking with ya...i have a friend with a TA. i like it okay. he has a lot done to it, its fast. but not as fast as my car.
shaun

[LT1 TA]

I know Jeff pretty well, I just give him shit when I think he needs it. I am trying to get him ( or others for that fact) to do some track days with me, and get more into handling capabilities. You guys have a light car, and they are raced in SCCA. Maybe you guys should try a track day weekend?

[Jeff Taylor]

LT1 TA - So right now I'm estimating I have 270-290 HP at the crank with the engine in nearly stock form...about the same as you...However, how much does a LT1 Trans Am weigh? Well over 3300 pounds, right? I weighed mine last week-- 2610 pounds with full interior, spare tire, and junk in the trunk. I wouldn't be happy driving a overweight stump-puller in stock form anyway.